Worst display I have ever seen.........

[reata]

It Equitana time Downunder and today I went along to the Colt Starting Competition..
Well I'm still in shock ....
We have a big horse breaking and training establishment not far from me. The owner of the operation is a very well known Horse Scientist. He is known world wide for his papers on horse behaviour and is invited to lecture all over the world.. He has scientific papers published and has written a few books on Equine Behaviour.. He is very expensive has a very long waiting list, and its almost a status symbol to have your horse started at his establishment.. and even more impressing if you send it there for further training..His son (about 30 yrs) does all the breaking and training with the help of many apprentices.. Its a privilege to be selected to work there..
Well today his "horseman" son was in the Colt starting competition. 6 colts, draw 2 straws, pick what colt out of the 2 you want to start.. 3 competitors.. run over 2 days, 90 mins each session with a 10 min break.
The colts had had very little handling and were out of a large herd situation up in our high country. They had been branded, drenched and had their feet worked on a few times but that was about all. None were what I would call halterbroke and not even taught to drag..
But they had seen and sniffed man.
Well this renown horse breaker and trainer had obviously never worked with a horse not handed to him in a halter..and had never used a proper round yard.
He spent the full 90 mins trying to catch his horse.. not knowing when to apply pressure. not knowing when to take off the pressure... not knowing how to draw a horse .. not knowing how to use his body language..not reading the horse.. not doing a thing right.. but he did have some oats in a pail.. and after the first 3/4 hour he picked up a long whip. Aprox after 1 hour he put up some rails in the Rp to try and block the horse in .. of course the horse ran through those.. by this time the horse was really trying to escape the scarey monster...
Mean while in the other pens, one guy had his horse nicely saddled and ridden and the other guy was still trying to get the pre saddling "Dance" he was sadly lacking a lot of feel too .. but the "expert" down the end had run out of aces.. (I think his pack of cards only had duces) time was up and he had not layed a hand on his horse.. that poor horse..he was 10 times less trusting of the human now.. and a lot smarter..he knows how to run through pressure and that humans are only trying to corner him...
To start with he was not an over difficult horse. He was just looking for a friend to trust.. and that buffoon gave him nothing.. I guess anybody can hang up a shingle saying "horse trainer"
They PAY this guy to work with horses??? You have to be joking!!!
Those of you who know me know it was very hard for me to watch let alone not want to tell him what to do. "get the hell out of the RP, you have no business being there". BUT I behaved LOL
I'm going back again tomorrow for the second episode. I bet somebody catches the horse for him and hands it to him haltered.. I hope to get some good photos of the "first ride"..
Horses can be so forgiving!!

[kennewman]

>horses '''can''' be so forgiving> ,,and on the brighter side of the world, humans ''too'', can also be forgiving. sometimes. that is when you already have the feel, timing , and balance, the thoughts of the horse come easier to you, the experience to create the yearn in your horse to reach for you, to be ''with you'', you too can have that mother-nature driven initiative to help others start to shine. just as you would help that errant ''colt'' that still does not 'comprehend',,, so you would also help that errant ''human''. that human so bathed in his own hubris , buffooning his way thru the horse business, maybe ,trying to be as good as his father , or for that matter, horseman in the fathers employ. yes, helck yes, we can help him too, justa like helping that colt, it justa comes so natural.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BUT THE TRUTH IS, over here on the darker side of the world,,isn't it fun sometimes,,,,isn't it fun for we humans, { before mother nature kicks in } to sit here on the sidelines , and make sure we are 'wholly entertained' by the mistrakes after the mistrakes the young horseman is making. again especially the times when mother-nature seemingly lays it out like a road atlas on what and how to do our deal with that horse. so , reata , you are '''charged''' with keeping all of us 'wholly entertained' by reporting on your coming observation. yes, some people here ,know you, but more people respect you and look up to you than you might think. that is a good thing. all kiddding aside, this may be the very day , the young man can identify with ways to improve himself by improving his horse-ways. sure hoping you are right and some better experienced hand ketches his colt up for him. and hopefully, that colt he is working with will continue to ''allow that human to learn''. as you say, <horses can be so forgiving>. that can be a good thing too. 'watchin' for more,,,canoeman

[Sue]

Glad I am not the only one that has a hard time watching things like that...

[kennewman]

for those of you that know reata, you can hear the frustration in her word. we will give the good lady some time to reflect on the week-end observations so she can again be positive in the day's work. short of anger, short of emotion, short of frustration, odds are she will come up with solutions that might be fitting for this horse and human . those folks down there are lucky to have you in the neighborhood, reata, good job. you [we] all are lucky to have her. in ours. canoe

[reata]

Thanks so much Ken, your a true gentleman.
What I saw at the weekend put me in some sort of shock and disbelief. It all got worse on the Sunday until the little horse started to fight back and then he shut down.
The guy working with the horse never hurt him physically but he never helped him mentally either..He never saw the try in the horse..At times the colt was asking to be caught but got blocked.. The little horse sooo wanted to get along..
This is the part I find unbelievable ..
This guy is the principal trainer for a major breaking and training facility in Australia.
They specialise in problem horses.. He has worked for some very high profile riders in Europe, breaking in their young stock. The father is a world wide authority on Equine Behaviour. They are 100% positive they KNOW all about horses and the way a horse thinks. That is their major claim to fame..
I better shut up I'm getting mad again .. and as Ken said its not becoming LOL I should know bettera..
Anyways I have emailed Warrick and offered to share with him a couple of little things but as yet no reply .. I don't really expect one ..
He never got more done than a halter on the very shut down horse on Sunday before time ran out, but he has offered to take the horse for 6 weeks to get it broke ..:-(
I have attached a link to a short video I took at about the 90 Min mark on Saturday and a link to their web site..If you guys look at the web site and YouTube video hopefully you may understand why I was so upset when I posted above.. I'm going to try and forget about the whole deal now .. and I apologize for my venting in public..
http://www.youtube.com/user/Reata1
http://www.aebc.com.au/home

[Titania]

Ok So i'll say this - Reata i'm sure he let you down, and the horse down and a bunch of other people. and It sure wasn't pretty to watch...But just trying to play devils advocate to these people - I'd say - yeah they are lacking a lot and their arrogance is getting in the way of them really reaching where they want to be.

however - the one thing they stress on their website is time - They don't break horses in an hour, thirty days, etc... they go nice and slow - now I think we all know it's actually b/c they are lacking feel and timing and true understanding...but i guess what I'm trying to say is take comfort in the fact that when they get home, the horses they work with, they do at their own speed (even though they say it's the horses). At least they have that right...right? I've seen many professionals do a lot worse by their horses...

So in looking at that video - i wasn't that upset. i saw someone working at their own pace trying to figure out what to do next. They didn't force the horse, or rush the horse, sure they were kind of bumbling along, but i know alot of guys/girls over this way that would have made a big show about it and started sending that horse around that RP out of frustration and embarrasment, until that horse was all sweaty and exhausted and maybe that wasn't in the video - but what I saw was someone trying...yeah it's sad that he has held himself up as an expert in his field. But sometimes it's experiences like this in a persons life that makes them realize there's still more to go. and the fact that it didn't sound like he blamed the horse, but wanted to continue to work with this horse shows me that he's truly in it for the horse. Whether he's good or not...I guess take heart in the fact that he and this horse will get things sorted out. it will be good for this guy to be out of his comfort zone for a little while maybe it will lead to better things for him and this horse. And i'm sure it was all you could do not to hop that fence and get in there with him...so take pride in the fact that you can see these little changes when the majority of horse "experts" out there cant.

So I've said this before - I have a big problem with these colt starting competitions. i don't think the word competition belongs anywhere near the word colt. or green/unbroke horse for that matter.

I don't understand why everything in life has to be a competition or has to be fast. I think there are some things that should just be left alone...and this is one of them.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should...

We as humans rush through life, we push and push until we get what we want, we put all of this pressure on ourselves and those around us and when we do that it is out of pure selfishness...and then you have these competitions... then you can add the word greed. And for what - to prove what? that you are the fastest draw in town? that you are the best b/c you are fast? you have more "feel" b/c you can push a young horse through it's first handling experiences in "2 days, 90 mins each session with a 10 min break"

OK So, the feeling of disgust you got when you saw this guy/this expert work with that horse...that's the feeling these competitions give me in general.

I hope they sold enough tickets to make it worth it.

[palehorse]

video was very interesting. the horse appeared to be doing what the fellow asked. everytime the horse looked away from him, he would walk toward him and push on the eye the horse presented. then the horse moved off. the guy looked as if he was trying to duplicate something he had seen, but did not understand. such as blocking, driving, drawing. therefore he had no timing, feel, or purpose to what he was doing. maybe he should follow a cow around for a few days so he could get the picture. he probably saw a demo or a video or something, huh?

[rsandi5218]

video was very interesting. the horse appeared to be doing what the fellow asked. everytime the horse looked away from him, he would walk toward him and push on the eye the horse presented. then the horse moved off. the guy looked as if he was trying to duplicate something he had seen, but did not understand. such as blocking, driving, drawing. therefore he had no timing, feel, or purpose to what he was doing. maybe he should follow a cow around for a few days so he could get the picture. he probably saw a demo or a video or something, huh?

Looks more to me like he can’t get up to the horse except for when the horse isn’t looking his way and then when the horse does look his way and realizes this guy is closer than he’d care for him to be, the horse moves off to put that distance back in there. The horse hasn’t found any reason yet to think this guy has anything good to offer.

Randy

[Mares Tales]

Randy said;

"The horse hasn’t found any reason yet to think this guy has anything good to offer."


That`s it in a nutshell.

[palehorse]

as i look again at the video of the guy.....i assume trying to "catch" this horse. the horse is giving him a lot of opportunities to allow the horse some relief. the guy doesnt recognize or understand the importance of that to the horse. he could step back and draw the horses mind to him. instead he tries to approach the horse as the horse turns his head and he then "pushes" the horse away. the horse is trying to figure out the "answer" and the guy doesnt recognize the "question". his approach tells the horse to leave, not to stay. thats just how my tired old eyes see it. of couse its just from a video.

[cynth]

Interesting watching the video.
Palehorse-- I too felt like there were lots of opportunities that weren't seen. I found myself trying to encourage and influence the guy while I was watching--translates as talking out loud to the computer screen:-) --- "back up a couple steps," "soften your eyes and stop looking so hard at the colt", etc...
Kinda like being a back seat driver....

[rsandi5218]

Yeah if he’d just back off a bit or just stand there it might help. The horse doesn’t give one iota about the agenda or how important this guy’s website says he is and probably never will.
It’s kinda like back in high school being real brash and asking a gal out on a date. If she doesn’t like him and she says no then it’s no. But if he backs off and she gets to see him around and gets to see what a good guy he really is, then that no can turn into a maybe and if the guy rushes that then it can turn into a no again. Of course, if he’s a counterfeit then the gal and the horse both will see right through that…..eventually.

Randy

[Russ]

The guy might be very very good.
I would say he is syncing up his feet with the horses. It is one technique to work a horse with out pressure. Once the horse realizes the humans feet mean something, you can use them to instruct the horse to move, and how to move.

When you watch someone like that, you have to spend days observing them, because their techniques blend in with where the horse is. They eventually end up at a place most people understand, but the horse as a far better understanding.

Russ

[Ash]

He's just so consistently behind. Wow. I hope he lets the horse help him figure it out.

[reata]

These people just don't give up!!
http://www.abc.net.au:80/catalyst/stories/2494999.htm

[chu2spit]

Reata,

Just few seconds of You Tube was too long!

[chu2spit]

Reata,

Survived the view! Other than what was actually accomplished in the other pen, nothing worth commenting on, except he should have either given the "prizes" to the deserving "hat" or tossed into the crowd. If the latter, hopefully to those still rooting for him on day 2!

[Mares Tales]

"NARRATION :
To add to his woes, this western style competition uses a round yard - which warwick never uses. Without rope skills, he's had no way of touching his frightened horse unless it lets him. Cowboy Dan meanwhile, who started with a calm horse and is a rope man par excellence is making it look easy."

NARRATION :
And to do that, they have to show they can win - or at least be competitive. But Dan is miles ahead of Warwick - and you can see the strain of hopes slowly disintegrating. Young Warwick has broken in more than 700 horses using the evidence based training he's developed with his dad. But in this unfamiliar round yard, he hasn't been able to show a second of it.

"Horse strikes ... narrowly misses Warwick's head."

Maybe Warrick should learn how to use a rope and a round yard.

[reata]

"Young Warwick has broken in more than 700 horses using the evidence based training he's developed with his dad."
Warwick is about 25... ok, if he started "breaking" horses at 15 to get 700 done in 10 years he would have to average 1.25 a week.. OMG what a man!!!
When the horse struck out narrowly missing Superboys head he had tormented the poor thing until it had to fight back to survive, by that time I was so much on the colts side I was cheering for him .. did ya notice the jerk the jerk gave him back? ..
The Mcleans had organised the ABC film crew to film Warwicks fine work with the untouched colt, I guess they had to put some B/S together to justify the time wasted.. BTW Dan did a fine job with his colt.. it was good to watch .. and the other guy did a great job with a very difficult young horse..

[dpony]

Looks like these folks are good at re-forming horses to be on the human's end of the continuum, instead of learning to understand the horse, and meet him on the horse's end.