"My horse doesn't like snaffle bits"

[Excess]

For the record this isn't my horse! I went out to a friend of a friend's property to try out some of their horses. I rode 3 horses and they weren't bad horses by any means, but definitely didn't have the greatest beginning. I believe they were Amish horses. I do know that these people got them from a trader and they got them in a trade.

I have to admit though on a sidenote riding all these different horses sure has made me appreciate my horse a lot more. I rode some in the Dominican Republic in March and then these and some others and I am just amazed at how light and responsive Speedy is compared to other horses. I don't get to ride that many horses and I wish I could. It's no secret that I have confidence issues and I have the fear that I'm going to ruin my horse everytime I get on him, but riding these other horses and then feeling where my horse is sure makes me feel a whole lot better. Of course these horses never were taught feel or much of anything at all other than go and ride, go left, go right and stop. But I am just amazed at the difference.

Anyway I was talking to these people and they were talking about how one of the horses has a "stopping issue" and the other wasn't respecting a rope halter. The one that wasn't respecting the ropehalter (I made a make-shift hackamore) was originally always ridden in a mechanical hackamore. I told them they should start with basics, bending, giving in to pressure, etc in groundwork and then progress to a snaffle. They said "Oh he/she doesn't like snaffles" and so I'm not sure what they plan on riding these horses in. Probably the mechanical hack on the mare and who knows on the gelding. But it makes me a little upset that people automatically put something down without giving the horse a chance. Now in my very, extremely limited experience and I could be completely wrong here, horses who "don't go well in snaffles" weren't given a good deal in a snaffle. I think if the horse had a choice they'd rather go in a snaffle rather than anything else.

But I'm curious as to what people have to say on the subject. WHY would a horse "not like to go in a snaffle?" And is there a horse that TRULY doesn't go well in a snaffle? Can all horses go in snaffles? I've heard some people say that their horses don't go well in jointed bits. What would you do in this instance? What would you start a horse in?

Also on a horse who doesn't give to pressure, how do you keep them from pulling on the bit?

[Sue]

Maybe you could translate "doesn't like the snaffle bit" to REALLY say "We can't get anything done with this horse when he's in a snaffle". ;)

[FrancaV]

Maybe you could translate "doesn't like the snaffle bit" to REALLY say "We can't get anything done with this horse when he's in a snaffle". ;)That's usually my take on it. Seems to me that most of the time the problem with a horse in a snaffle bit comes down to horse's preparation (or lack thereof) and the rider's hands.... My feeling has always been that curb bits are for refinement. In the right hands a horse should go just fine in a snaffle unless there is a dental issue or a particular snaffle bit is not quite right in some way for the horse's mouth. I have held snaffle bits that I thought could be too heavy, or too thick, or too thin for some horses, for example. And then there are loose ring, D-ring, eggbutt, and full cheek snaffles. But in general, some type of snaffle bit ought to be the right tool for starting or restarting a horse before progressing to any sort of curb bit. (I don't like the idea of mechanical hackamores - they can be very severe.)

[BuckarooMan]

You need to check the horses mouth too see how much tongue relief you have if the horse has a thin or a thick tough. If you take your finger and place across the horses tongue and your finger fits down over the bars with little effort thats a thin tongued horse if it takes a touch more effort thats a thick tongue horse. If your snaffle has a curved mouth piece that offers allot of tongue relief verse a strait snaffle offers little. If your bit is a tongue relief bit already you have to make sure your not soring the bars of the horses mouth if thats why he is "not liking" the current snaffle you might try him in a leverage bit to try and take some pressure off the bars. If your horse is thin tongue they seem to work better with little or no tongue relief so those strait snaffles like a tomb thumb makes good contact with the thin tongue and the bars. Two more things to consider is that does the horse in question have his wolf teeth coming in? does he have any caps coming off it he is young? also how much wrinkles do you have on the bit? usually about 2 is good enough to get the bit on the bars. Also give him time to get used to the bits give it time and move on to the next if you still don't like the out come.

An on the last statement on mech hacks being to harsh. Your bits and hackamores are as harsh as your hands make them. Also the problems with some snaffes were the join together they some times pinch.

[FrancaV]

An on the last statement on mech hacks being to harsh. Your bits and hackamores are as harsh as your hands make them.Barring (pardon the pun) dental or mouth conformation issues, seems to me it's always about the hands with any properly fitted piece of headgear that doesn't already hurt the horse at rest on a loose rein.

A person can install major braciness and crankiness in a horse by riding in just a halter. The person may have the best of intentions, thinking it's "kinder" to use a halter than a bit, but without any feel passing between the human hands and the horse's head he's not doing the horse any special favors simply by using a halter.

That said, I don't really think it's fair to take a young or inexperienced horse to a leverage device too soon, even in the best of hands.

Re: wrinkles

LOL. We just got done discussing all the ways individual horse mouths can be different. ;) Adjusting bit placement by the number of wrinkles is a pretty old-fashioned notion and I don't think it's very reliable. If you look at the profiles of a bunch of different horses at rest you can see how much variation there is in the distance from the front of the mouth to the corners. And how those corners line up with the teeth inside won't be the same. I like to start with the bit low and look at how the horse chooses to carry the bit. Then I take up the slack enough so the bit can't accidentally knock his front teeth. On my mare there are no wrinkles. I suspect very few horses actually need the bit high enough to make more than one wrinkle; I prefer not to see any wrinkles at all but acknowledge that some horses don't naturally have very wide "smiles".

[Excess]

I always think the wrinkle-discussion is always interesting. I also always wonder what people think about grazing. By grazing I mean letting horses eat with a bit in their mouth or letting them eat while being ridden or hand grazing them. I have heard so many people say that it causes a horse to become disrespectful to hand graze them. But we have yet to put up our summer pastures so there's limited grass in the winter pastures so I hand graze Speedy every chance I get. On the trail I don't let him nibble unless it's as high as his eye because then it's pretty hard to keep him from grabbing those! Plus if he keeps doing his job and moving I don't mind if he grabs a meal on the run.

As far as bits and hands go, there's someone at our barn that wants to put their horse in a spade overnight! Well not really overnight but in a month. They have had him in a leather bosal for a few years but "that doesn't work with him anymore" and they want to show him (paso) and so they want him to go directly into a spade. Yipes.

Speedy has two Tom Balding Snaffles. One is a custom made Balding with a ball in the middle and the other is the ball-hinge ring snaffle. He always fiddles with the bit in his mouth but he never evades it. I just think he likes to fiddle with it in the arena only. He doesn't do it on the trail. He's a very busy minded horse and I think just fiddlin with it keeps his mind busy.

[FrancaV]

As far as bits and hands go, there's someone at our barn that wants to put their horse in a spade overnight! Well not really overnight but in a month. They have had him in a leather bosal for a few years but "that doesn't work with him anymore" and they want to show him (paso) and so they want him to go directly into a spade. Yipes.Yipes, indeed! I thought that the time to transition from bosal to the two-rein was when everything was going right, not when the bosal "doesn't work any more". Geez. And these folks want to skip the two-rein stage altogether? No hybrid bit? I feel bad for the horse. But then I tend to feel bad for all of the horses in those Paso Fino breed shows, so I don't really envision a happy horse in the hands of these folks anyhow. :(

[Excess]

Yipes, indeed! I thought that the time to transition from bosal to the two-rein was when everything was going right, not when the bosal "doesn't work any more". Geez. And these folks want to skip the two-rein stage altogether? No hybrid bit? I feel bad for the horse. But then I tend to feel bad for all of the horses in those Paso Fino breed shows, so I don't really envision a happy horse in the hands of these folks anyhow. :(

Nope. Not at all. These are Peruvian Paso folks. They claim they go from bosal to spade. They first showed me this big spade bit that they wanted their horse to go into. But the bit they're using is not a spade but it's still very much a leverage bit with balls along the straight part...and a slight port. Then about 5" shanks. I just ignore these people now.

I own two paso finos. And I never had a hand in thier training. Both were for the most part rescue situations. One was given to me for my services of doing yearly BASIC classes - by basic I mean "yes horses do feel pain please don't ride them with saddle sores the size of texas" - that I've been doing for three years now.

It's interesting...I've seen some happy pasos. And I've seen pasos that are just automatic. I think there's just so much breed prejudice out there. Especially between the gaited breeds it seems.

I feel very sorry for this horse. He is interesting. He's sort of short and stocky...I don't know. I like the finos moreso than the peruvians. So maybe I'm being prejudice! But he's a timebomb. Spooks at his own farts. I think if he were started differently he sure would have been a nice horse. I like to think he could be helped...but I'm not sure. I feel very bad for him and I always slip him some cookies in his feed bucket.

[Greg]

Just wanted to add about the snaffle, I think this horse is just not ready for anything other than a rope halter on it yet, i think it needs some feel and timing put in there now thanks greg

[Greg]

I try not to let my horse nibble or eat while im on the trail or working with her at anytime. Its class time then not playtime and i never give her any kind of treets other than some fresh hey.. thanks greg

[Weebonilass]

A low palete will also cause discomfort in a horse. My gelding has a thicker tongue and a low palate along with a small muzzle. I have to use a three piece snaffle, which keeps the bit from jabbing straight up into the roof of his mouth.

[Excess]

A low palete will also cause discomfort in a horse. My gelding has a thicker tongue and a low palate along with a small muzzle. I have to use a three piece snaffle, which keeps the bit from jabbing straight up into the roof of his mouth.

I own both. A three piece snaffle and a two piece. Both are Balding bits. My horse nibbles on both bits. Mostly when he's concentrating though. It reminds me of a kid chewing on a pen cap.