Break through?

[Excess]

If it wasn't a break through I think I had a pretty fantastic ride today. I definitely feel that I learned something and something from my horse and about myself.

First a little history...I grew up riding pretty much being told that it's all in the hands and not in the seat. A result of that being me having very heavy hands. Ever since I got involved with NH I have always been very conscious of my hands but I still tend to use more pressure than normal. I am not by any means as bad as before. I often chide myself after I use heavy hands and this has just been a real struggle for me.

Secondly, I've had difficulty getting my colt to pick up a canter without bucking in the arena. We can canter, gallop, do everything outside without him throwing a buck. And I should define buck here - I mean a little kick out to the side with both feet. Not by any means full-blown bronc riding. Just a little complaint that has never really unseated me, but still makes me nervous.

TODAY I was out in the roundpen and I let him get his kicks out before working him. It's been real cold and snowy here lately and none of the horses are too happy about it and won't leave the run-in even though it's not nearly half as bad as it has been. I let him out in the RP a bit and then I decided that I'd try RP-ing a bit even though I hadn't planned on it. For the FIRST TIME EVER I got him to WALK a circle around me and not trot. Then I got him to trot, then walk then pick up a canter without a kick! I was very happy. We didn't do more than 5 minutes of roundpenning if that. I didn't want to push a good thing.

I had earlier brought out my tack with me to the RP so I could tack him up there...which I have done maybe once or twice before if that. He stood like a natural while I tacked him up. I expected him too...I tack him up in the stall with nothing on him. So this is really probably not a big deal at all.

Anyway I really don't know what made me decide to do this. And I think if I thought it out ahead of time I would have freaked myself out and not ended up on doing it. I think what inspired me is watching some Ray Hunt videos last night. I watched Turning Loose (which someone gave me, I know it's not actually Ray's video or something like that and I wouldn't buy something without him getting $ for it) and Back to the Beginning. I was listening to him talk about how people just get in the way with thier horses and they need to get out of the way. So I thought today during my ride I'd do just that and see what happens.

So I tacked up Speedy and put him in his snaffle outfit and everything. I got up there with the full intention of not touching his mouth once with the bit and getting him to canter without bucking. And to do transitions up and down without me touching his mouth at all. He could go wherever he wanted to go, but I was controlling the speed.

Well you know what? It was wonderful! And I did not touch his mouth once with the bit at all! NOT ONCE did I pick up those reins. I got him to walk, trot, canter, stop, turn, circle, haunches over all with just seat and legs. At first he did buck a bit at the canter but I set myself up like I saw Buck ride the bucking colt in his colt starting clinic and I had no trouble sitting it at all. After a couple times though Speedy picked up the transition both ways smoother than we started out but not completely smoothly.

Either way I felt so good. We ended better than we started. He didn't do it 100% perfect yet, but he did do it 90% perfect which for the first time out is good enough for me. I'm going to do this some more. And I think pretty soon we'll get it down with smoother transitions in no time.

I personally feel a lot more confident as a rider and as a person...and I don't feel like I'm going to ruin my horse every time I get on him.

I really hope this is where you guys DON'T tell me I did something really wrong and I get thrown off my elation.....

[Cinch]

Not that you did anything really wrong, but what if you did do something wrong? Here's something to think about. If you did something wrong, would you rather have someone tell you & throw you off your elation or would you rather they didn't tell you & you got thrown off your horse?

[Excess]

I'd definitely want someone to tell me I did something wrong. I don't want to get hurt! I'd rather have my bubble burst than a bone.

[AWSpinks]

I have seen what you are talking about in several colts. I think you did just right buy getting out of his way.

I don't think that they are "bucking" as much as they are sorting out their feet. On the ones I have had that did this I noticed that they did it when I was holding a soft feel too soon in the up transition to the canter or when they were in a small pen. Also most of them were taller in the hips than they were in the withers. Just an observation.

What I did for this was try to ride outside and don't pull on their head when going into the canter. It never took long for them to get it all sorted out and I could start asking for a more collected transition.

I really think it is a growth stage/physical thing. I believe the horse has to get that nose out and the front end "up" enough to get the hind quarters underneath themselves for the canter. A young horse that is not as handy with saddle and rider comes up with this little "kick step" to get it done when the nose is being held in or when they are being ridden in a smaller area.

What do the experts say?

[FrancaV]

Sounds like you did great to me!

[Cinch]

There are usually no right or wrong ways to do things. Some ways are just better than others. The right way is the way that suits your horse the best. If he's kicking out during the transition, maybe you're crowding him a little to much for his mental & physical developement. I don't know, I wasn't there. What Spinks says about big awkward colts is true & this might help him. Just keep a little pressure on him at the trot & let him TIP over into the lope. Just keep trotting him faster & faster until it's his idea to lope. Good Luck.

[Mares Tales]

Exy, congratulations on having one of those Ah HA! moments that we love to experience, rounding another bend in our journey.

Consider the following.......

1. Horses hate confinement.
Hint: what you are doing with your reins and him bucking at the canter. This is a symptom of what else is going on in your relationship.

2.What is a brace? (Think of the whole horse)
Think of this going all the way through from JAW, poll, spine and down to his feet.

3.What does "blending in" mean and what does it feel like to both of you?
Why does this make a horse feel more comfortable and why did your latest ride go so smoothly.

4.What do horses do when they are frightened, untrusting and feel confined, from the most subtle to the most expressive?

Now compare all these things to what you have felt Speedy do in the past when he has bucked at the canter, resisted you or just wasn`t as fluid as you know a horse can be. Think of where your point of communication was (at the end of the rein, because you were taught to ride mainly with your hands) and compare that to what parts of your body you were using in your last session. Compare what happened in your last episode that made the difference and why it felt so good to the both of you. Think and Compare...it`s how we learn.

[Excess]

>>>Exy, congratulations on having one of those Ah HA! moments that we love to experience, rounding another bend in our journey.<<<

Thanks Mares! It probably isn't the biggest deal to anyone else....but I've had a rough time getting on this journey with my past experiences. And I'll take whatever I can get! I'm sure it will take a lifetime to get wherever I need to get, but I'll take these little Ah-HA moments whenever I can get them.


>>>1. Horses hate confinement.
Hint: what you are doing with your reins and him bucking at the canter. This is a symptom of what else is going on in your relationship.<<<

I'm not really sure what I'm doing with the reins that get him to buck at the canter. He only bucks at the canter in the arena...we never have an issue outside. I have experienced both with no contact and a little contact. Usually I make a point to have no contact on the reins when I ask him to canter. Then when he starts the kicking out, I pick him up and he usualy smooths out if I support him more. But at the same time I worry about using too much contact. He's still a young horse. He's 5 this year. But his mind is young. And I think he'll always be that way which is one of the reasons that makes him so special. I don't like using the term disrespectful because I believe half the time we say a horse is disrespectful it is us that's being disrespectful to the horse and we just don't see it. This is where I think I need someone to watch me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I think also my problem isn't necessarily in my hands, but also in how I ask for the canter.

>>>2.What is a brace? (Think of the whole horse)
Think of this going all the way through from JAW, poll, spine and down to his feet.<<<

This is definately an issue I'm having as well. I zero in on one thing which ultimately makes me zero in on the one thing I have a problem with and I don't take the whole horse into consideration. It's like in Buck's story where he's talking about getting his horse to turn around but the horse doesn't seem to want to put effort into it I think and he keeps focusing on the frontquarters because he's convinced where that problem was. And he called up Bill Dorrance and Bill kept talking about the haunches and Buck thought he was nuts at first. Then tried it and realized he wasn't thinking about the whole horse. I know I don't think about the whole horse. I tend to zero in on one thing especially when I'm having an issue with it.

>>>3.What does "blending in" mean and what does it feel like to both of you?
Why does this make a horse feel more comfortable and why did your latest ride go so smoothly.<<<

Blending in to me means becoming one. I feel that out on the trail. Where we're both in tune to each other, where it's just us. Two weekends ago I went on a trail ride and it almost felt like the best trail ride I've had in a long time. I felt completely in tune with my horse. He didn't refuse to through or over or by anything. He cantered willingly and collectedly yet still in control. It was a nice feeling of harmoney, togetherness and oneness.

>>>4.What do horses do when they are frightened, untrusting and feel confined, from the most subtle to the most expressive?<<<

Flight first but if they can't do that they then strike out.

>>>Now compare all these things to what you have felt Speedy do in the past when he has bucked at the canter, resisted you or just wasn`t as fluid as you know a horse can be. Think of where your point of communication was (at the end of the rein, because you were taught to ride mainly with your hands) and compare that to what parts of your body you were using in your last session. Compare what happened in your last episode that made the difference and why it felt so good to the both of you. Think and Compare...it`s how we learn<<<

I think Cinch raised a good point with me crowding him. I think I might just be over-cuing and doing a million things at once which makes him act out. My pasos are push-button horses. You bring up your energy, you cluck, and they will move up in a gear. You bring up more energy and they keep pouring on the speed as need be. Speedy seems to lack the motivation. In an open field, he moves out into a nice canter. When I was at this other barn they had trails cut in to the brush and there were a bunch of straight ways and Speedy loooooved to gallop down those and required little to no motivation. All I had to do is THINK canter or gallop and he'd go. Like I've said, our problem is in the ARENA. And I think part of it is that I lack motivation in the arena and it doesn't seem like we're going anywhere. And I think Speedy sort of picks up on that too and doesn't feel like he's going anywhere. Canter in a circle? Why?

When I ask him for a canter I don't really have a cue for it. Which is probably our problem right there. With the pasos I'm just so used to feeling the urge to run in the pit of my stomach and sending an electric shiver down my thighs, lift an arm, and they go! Speedy on the other hand would sooner just keep trot and walk around. I've worked with three trainers. A Parelli trainer, a Certified Horsemanship Association trainer, and my vaquero trainer. All three trainers have called Speedy lazy. But can a horse be lazy in just the arena? Can a horse be fine outside but not inside? I would think a horse that is lazy would be lazy everywhere and not just in one place.

When I ask for a canter in the arena I don't use hands, I use just legs. I ask with a squeeze and get an ear pin. I ask abit harder and I get a reluctant move out into the canter usually with a buck. I'm going to try what Cinch suggested and just tip him into a canter and make it his idea to canter rather than asking then demanding a canter. I'm probably offending him.

He's not a big colt by any means or built downhill. He's very nicely built. I don't have a recent conformation shot of him, but here's one when he was a 3yr old: http://speedychronicles.tripod.com/Pedigree.htm His butt is under developed because we have never worked on collection yet. I figured with him being so young I needn't worry about that yet and now that he's five I'm going to start to expect more out of him and more out of me. He averages about 900lbs with a weight tape.

Now that the weather is HOPEFULLY going to get nicer (it's been snowing but supposed to be warming up now) I'll be able to do more stuff outside and work on it out there rather than inside. But I think he should still be able to canter indoors as well as outdoors.

Wow this became long. But it really helped to think out loud. Thanks for all the great advice everyone. Please keep it coming.

[kennewman]

speedy, cinch has given you the whole future there in a few words, your rider, as soon as she can, will hang up that word 'cue' and exchange it maybe for 'signal' and start 'doing what it takes' for you to understand the signal. clearly , so that you can change gaits cuz of your combined thinking, no matter if you are tracking other horses, or alone in the barn alley. sometimes, it is not a bad idea to have a couple of loose horses in a pen with you to precipitate free movement, something, to which this little colt can be drawn, with very little to do about it. not to worry , it sounds as if your rider has experienced enough of that 'other stuff' to know that you are ready for much ,much more. any way be proud of your rider,, she is trying. really trying.

[AWSpinks]

As I read your last post I am thinking it is an outside/inside thing. Could be he doesn't think to much of cantering in the round pen.

He just needs more of it. Not cantering so much as the transition. Trot up until he canters then ride slow until he trots then ride him up. Don't get stuck in a rut change it up some maybe ride slow all the way to the walk and then back up to the trot then back to the walk then up all the way to the canter. I wouldn't canter for very long, it is not the canter but the transition that he needs more of.

Another thing I like to do is see how many "gears" you can get in the trot or walk. That is, how many transitions can you get between transitions.

If the "kick" gets worse you need to think it over and find a way to deal with it. The ear pinning makes me wonder.

[Mares Tales]

Outside he is free to move. Things are interesting. He is still young and his balance with a rider might not be all that good yet or he has flashbacks to when it wasn`t all that good. Remember Ray saying, "He learns what he lives".

The suggestion of practicing a lot of transitions is a good one but I would try to ride outside more often while practicing them so it is an enjoyable experience and he feels like he can move. Don`t go out one day and say "Today we are going to practice transitions" instead.......when you feel he is nicely in front of you and you are clicking and he is responsive, then ask for a transition, then go on and enjoy your ride and then when you feel things are just right, and things are set up for him to succeed (he is forward yet listening to you) then do another transition. Be consistant about bringing your life up when you want an UP transition. Do a transition and then if its good, go over it in your head and decide why it turned out well. Whatever you do, don`t pick at your horse. I know we do not intend to pick but we are human and it`s easy for humans to want to WORK at something. We sometimes forget that the horse is taking this all in and is forming his own impressions because of the way we are presenting things to him. If he has trouble with circles, ride a lot of straight lines and when things are just right and he feels nicely forward and balanced under you, ask for a circle, not too small, a circumference that he can handle....that would probably be about 20 meters for most horses, (the size expected that a young dressage horse can handle at training level) then go straight again.

At home, I have the advantage of being able to work in a 7 acre hayfield....I can ride along on a straight line for ages and then when I feel the horse feels right, I can make a circle where ever I want. In other words, where I ride does not decide what I do, I can make a corner where ever I think I need one, not when it comes up as in an arena. I find that this is great therapy for a horse that feels confined by his rider or arena.

It`s very difficult to give advice over the internet without seeing you and your horse together but you are getting some really good ideas from fellow posters. Perhaps something will fit. Good luck.

[Sue]

All three trainers have called Speedy lazy. But can a horse be lazy in just the arena? Can a horse be fine outside but not inside? I would think a horse that is lazy would be lazy everywhere and not just in one place.>>Exy

Why not? I have one of these. A hot, hot, HOT bred running QH (very little QH for that matter, mostly TB). A lazy pig in the arena. You better be ready for action outside, though!

How many kids are "lazy" in the schoolroom but pretty lively out on the playground? There are alot of kids that just take to the monotonous drilling of schoolwork and get A's, others... and this is no reflection on their intelligence or 'laziness' for that matter, just are uninspired by it. Your horse is probably like this. It's probably a good thing, because it pushes you more to make it interesting and relevant.