Responding to Horse Behavior/Opinions

[Ash]

I was wondering how the Dorrances, Buck, and Ray teach to respond when the horse goes to nip, kick, or pin the ears when you are on the ground with them?

[KpH]

I know what Ray would probably say,
"Don't let him do it."
Tom would probably say, "Let him run into something".

I will say...set it up so that when your horse feels like he needs to bite you, be there with your elbow or a sharp rap with a pointy knuckle before he can try it.
K4H

[KpH]

about things like kicking, be around your horse in a way that the horse never gets into the 'place' where he feels like he needs to kick.
Set things up so he can respond to you, without feeling like he needs to kick (or buck, or bite).
K4

[Excess]

I'm not really sure Ash. This is a touchy subject. I know in Buck's video...I can't remember which one it is. I think it's From the Ground Up because I know it's not Colt Starting and someone asked how much affection is too much affection from a horse with them nuzzling and nibbling. Buck responded "There's no much too affection except that" So he frowns upon the biting. Julie Goodnight says when you're working with a horse it's the horse's responsibility to keep his head between the two far points of their shoulders. That you help them find that responsibility. I've never had a problem with my horses pinning thier ears at me or biting me.

I had an issue and sometimes still do with Speedy kicking out in the roundpen but I took a step back and noticed that it was my fault and I was using cues that were too big for him. When I toned it down he was much better. So it was my fault and not his, I was doing something that was offending him and he was speaking out.

I guess I would step back and see what I was doing to see what is causing the horse to be biting and kicking. And once you rule out an issue with yourself, then re-evaluate.

[Ash]

Brenna's never bit me either, but she does lip sometimes when she smells hay on my hands. I just gently push her away.

In referrence to the ear pinning, I was getting on her bareback yesterday morning, practicing getting up because I was bored and it was raining out. I was probably bugging her because she did put her ears back once and sort of bend her head toward me. I just bumped her lightly on the side of the neck.

I don't know. I feel like I should be able to get on her bareback!

[Weebonilass]

Just a thought Ash.... you should be able to get up there... but maybe it was the way you were getting up there... or perhaps it was a seam in your pants...or maybe you were bugging her with all the practice... or it could have been a just get on and stay on would you kind of thing :)

I know my gelding gets irritated, frustrated, bored easily. And as Ray Hunt said in the Turning Loose video, he's a living, breathing, decision making creature and he's entitled to an opinion.

[fionagirl]

Great question! I was having trouble holding onto the "let him run into pressure" concept until a good friend and wise horsewoman gave me this way to think about it (in reference to when my filly follows me & my wheelbarrow around the paddock to the point of annoyance): as you do you work, move around in really unpredictable ways that sometimes land the horse with a bump (or more). The end result should be the horse thinks "Wow. This woman is so unpredictable and clutzy that maybe I ought to put a little distance between us."

That was important for me because it allowed me to take any "intentionality" out of the contact with the horse and allows her to make sense of the situation all on her own and understand what "too close" is. Of course sometimes you have to be much more deliberate than that, but in some situations this works out well for me.

You all may have opinions about that way of thinking and I'm looking forward to hearing them!

[FrancaV]

That's a good way of looking at it. The horse really needs to pay attention. I sometimes do this with leading - trot off and stop suddenly, for example - but one thing about this exercise is that you do need to "grow eyes on the back of your head" and be careful. If you catch your horse by surprise, that "bump" could hurt you more than him if you're not properly prepared and positioned. ;) So you'd want to do this with a horse that wasn't already too pushy; if he's likely to run over the top of you, more direct measures would be required, as you suggested. There are times when you must have clear intent - different tools for different situations. With that caveat, I've found that your little exercise is a good way to keep a horse's interest and attention, while maintaining your personal space and avoiding the suggestion that you're punishing him in any way. He learns to take responsibility for keeping the proper distance between you on his own.

[fionagirl]

He learns to take responsibility for keeping the proper distance between you on his own.

Yes, exactly. I want her to assume some responsibility. That's a good way to think about this idea. Of course, I think something different would be in order where there seemed to be more aggression on the horse's part. But you have to be so careful -- it's easy for the whole thing to escalate to a test of wills and strength and that gets you nowhere fast.