Hi, and some help needed. (:

[SarahandSam]

Hi folks! My name's Sarah. If anyone remembers, I posted here for a while last spring under the name "MyAmigoMaya"--at the time I had just been given my first horse, a QH with navicular, named Maya. I ended up giving Maya to my farrier, who had rescued her in the first place--Maya's feet hadn't been improving to the level where she could be ridden and I really wanted a riding horse, so my farrier's got her now, is doing a balanced barefoot trim and she's doing great, though still not rideable. (: I also know Exy and Titania in "real life." I've been lurking for a long time but I never really have any new or brilliant insight to add to the conversations, so I mostly just read and learn. (: However, I have a question now--or a problem/situation--that I was hoping for some opinions and advice on.

In July I bought my current horse, Samwise (or Sam), from Titania. He's a 4 1/2 y/o QH pony and I love him to death--we've gotten along great from day 1. He's tested me here and there, of course, but I corrected him and made him work, and we've never had any respect issues that haven't been solved right away. I have started round-penning him and he'll test me there too occasionally, but we work through it until he's submissive and respectful. He's great under saddle, and with ground manners he's awesome--walks up to put his head in the halter, follows just behind and to the right of me on a loose lead or no lead at all, stops when I stop, backs when I back, stands still when I point my feet at him and tell him not to move. No issues. I no longer hand feed treats because he gets pushy if I do, and he's not allowed to put his face in my space at all, and he's been very respectful about this and good with his boundaries.

Except that on two occasions now, a couple weeks apart, as I'm leading him, I glance over my shoulder to suddenly see his muzzle six inches away from my head, ears pinned back and eyes white, like he's ready to attack. The first time was while we were doing groundwork in the arena, off the lead (he was wearing a rope halter and lead but I just had the lead draped around his neck because he was hooked on); the second time was while I was leading him around under saddle and doing some groundwork before riding. Both times I reacted by hissing and backing him several steps out of my space and acting like a demented crazy furious person (which I more or less was). He flung his head up and acted like I was trying to kill him, then licked and chewed--but still didn't have a friendly face on him despite the licking and chewing and lowered head. Then I'd lead him again, and he'd do it again, and we'd repeat the same routine. Both times I rode him afterward, and he was completely fine under saddle--no issues that would make me think pain would be a factor at all, and no pushiness or disobedience. After riding, he was a perfect gentleman with leading again--respectful and out of my space, friendly but not pushy.

Part of me wonders if it's a game he's playing, since he's a young horse (4) and I know he's going to test boundaries. But this is such a big, aggressive move that I'm really kind of taken aback. I worry partially that if that's the case, my reacting so strongly is "playing" back with him, because he reacts so dramatically and then repeats the behaviour. The last time he tried it I backed him up more quietly and he didn't react as strongly and didn't try it as strongly the next time. But I also don't want to let him get away in any way with behaviour that I consider dangerous--even though he hasn't actually attacked me (and easily could have), I'm a bit freaked out by how different a horse he is right there. He really is awesome at all other times and all his other moments of defiance have been quick little things that he stopped immediately after correction. My only other possible thought is that it has something to do with his current herd--he's lowest in his herd of three, with two mares who boss him around (though they're not bullies, just dominant). So I've thought that maybe he just had a picked-on day and wanted to try to herd and dominate me.

Anyone ever deal with this and have any insight? Is he testing me in a really dramatic way, is he trying to play an aggressive game, or is there some underlying issue that's causing this disrespect? I'd appreciate any thoughts you have! Thanks very much. (:

[reata]

Welcome back Sarah.. Sam sounds just what you wanted in a riding horse.. Except of course for the problem .. Your post was very informative.. and answered a lot of the questions I had in my mind while I was reading it..Hes testing his boundaries. He doesnt like being on the bottom of the pecking order and hes trying, behind your back,to play a little dominance game..I doubt very much if he will follow through with his threats but still, if you don't keep an eye on him, he just might.. I could tell you your doing too much with him in the Round pen and your MAKING him do all these respect games..But what the heck that would totally confuse you and I'm sure its not doing Sam any harm. But you have to nip this nasty habit in the bud. And getting mad at him will make him less likely to follow through but I don't think it will fix your problem. Ya have to get smarter.. and have eyes in the back of your head.."What happens before what happens, happens"
See the expression change and do something about it before it turns to aggression..
Now comes the hard part..You can't punish the horse, but you do have to change his mind set. I would carry a short whip, or even a longer carrot stick thing.. Or even a flag.. or even the end of your rope and set it up so when the expression changed he ran firmly into the end of the stick, whip or rope..accidentally of course..don't change your expression.. don't get mad.. just act like you did nothing .. he did it to himself.. Pet him and just keep doing what you were doing before.. "Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult"
He is only young, and hes low in the pecking order.. and I'm sure hes a really sweet horse.. But hes testing the boundaries.. let him know that your not the one to test out his aggression on.. Try it with somebody else.. You are not going to be part of his silly games..
Good luck and when ya get the eyes in the back of your head working let us know how ya did it..:eek:

[SarahandSam]

Thanks Reata! I agree with what you said about developing "eyes in the back of my head." One of the things I realized after typing this post was that I've gotten too careless because I trust Sam a lot. I taught him to not barge ahead of me and to keep his head about equal with my shoulder and he learned that quickly, and he's always been so good about following placidly along after me like a puppy that I have recently started letting him slip too far back and behind me, without realizing it--so instead of him being submissive by not barging ahead, I was letting him sneak into a dominant position behind me without my noticing. So he probably has been developing those early warning signs you mentioned, while I was blithely oblivious. He's the first horse I've trusted enough to ride around bareback and in a halter, and that's a big deal for me--but I do need to remember that even my darling pony can kill me completely by accident, and that trusting a horse doesn't mean assuming he's always going to do the right thing. (:

So I'm going to definitely follow your advice about carrying a stick or something (I usually have a long enough lead rope to twirl, but I am so horrible at rope handling I am more likely to lose an eye), and though I can't grow eyes in the back of my head, I'm going to make him walk up and to the side enough that I can at least be watching him good out of peripheral vision!

You mentioned that I'm doing too much with him in the round pen... I'm pretty new to round penning and we've only done it a few times, so I don't know exactly how to judge what is "too much" in a round pen situation... even though it *will* probably confuse me, could you explain a little about what you meant by that?

Thank you again!

[Mulie]

I got a picture in my head of when a parent disciplines a child and then turns their back and the kid sticks out their tongue at them.LOL. I'd be interested too in knowing how much is too much in regards to the round pen. I think it would be real easy to do that. Sometimes if I don't have time to ride it is tempting to think I could put her in the round pen and just do some of that stuff, but I don't because at this point it seems like I would just kind of be annoying her.

[Titania]

This post isn't going to be helpful in the least... LOL

I just wanted to compliment you publicly Sarah. When I came to hang out with you and sam, I honestly didn't know what to expect. How far has our little rescue has come, what does he know, is he being a good little boy?

But i defintely was amazed at what a good partnership you two have. It's not one of dominance but of mutual respect. Even if he tests a little bit here and there, you never had to ask him twice. He is a horse and a baby. And you don't treat him like a human, which I think makes him more at peace with his horseyself. if that makes sense?

The two of you riding in your straight lines, nice jog, beautiful circles, was definetly inspiring. his head set was nice, mouth relaxed, i barely saw you pick up on the reins there was always a nice float. You could tell that Sam was at perfect peace being there with you. I hope to have that bond with a horse someday. You two looked like you were one mind out there. Kudos! Not to mention you are always respectful of his comfort, releasing the girth right after the ride. Something I often forget to do. i think those little things mean a lot to him.

Also, there were people working out a pretty high strung horse in the round pen. and i didn't see Sam's attention waiver from you once. i could see him watching where he was going, sure, but he was always ready to do what you asked.

So although I think this might be a bit of a bump in the road, I just thought I'd say what i saw :) kudos again! and kudos for being at the part in your relationship in only a few short months where it's these little adjustments, not big ones!

[FrancaV]

While my round pen work has come a long way, I still think I have the ability to annoy Seven in the round pen so I hardly ever use it any more. If I do use it, it's just for five minutes or 10 minutes, max. It helps me get a look at her physically, to see if there are any ouchies or tight spots, or if there are any tack issues. But as far as groundwork for the mind, I'm finding work on the line more valuable at this point in her training. Most of the really good horsemen I know of don't use the round pen much for horses that are going well under saddle. The round pen is more for colts and restarts, I think ... to give the horse a bit more space while he sorts things out early on in his training.

Speaking from experience, it is very easy to overdo roundpenning. If the horse is under saddle, it's best (IMO) to quit any sort of groundwork as soon as you feel you've got your horse's mind with you. Not just momentarily on you, but truly engaged and with you, waiting for what's next. If the horse is not under saddle, quit the round penning at the same point and do something else - halter up and go for a walk, work on lightness on the lead rope, stepping specific feet where you want them to go, etc. Be creative and be precise.

Sarah, I think Sam may be at the point where he doesn't really "need" much in the way of round penning. If it's something you would like to do better for your own experience, maybe another pair of eyes on you while you work with Sam in the round pen would be good. Just to give you an idea of what you're looking for, how to change things up, and most importantly, when to quit. :)

[reata]

Hi Sarah,
We all have to learn the "Moves", where to be to get the horse to move where we want him and how we want him. That takes time and practice. We learn where to be and what to do with our bodies but we become very mechanical. Then we search for "feel". Only then do we really start to get this stuff working for us. We can do less and achieve more. It starts to make sense to the horse and that 6th sense starts to take over. But that doesnt happen overnite.. We have to train our bodies.. Newbies to this think that they are training the horse, but in reality the horse already knows.. hes just waiting for you to get it right.. and if hes not doing what you ask YOUR asking him wrong.. Sam is helping you learn this stuff. Hes a great horse to start with.
SOOOOOO have a plan what you want to happen in the RP..and when each part of the plan works, don't drill it.. move on .. watch Sam's expression.. if you see him work his mouth, Stop and let him chew it over.. then go on with your plan ..
I really like the way you observe your horse and you are aware of where he is. That's part of the battle won .. Your over THAT hump and observation is like second nature.. Some people never get that far.. Your doing good..Real Good!!! but you can't learn this stuff overnight.. It will take you a life time .. YOU ARE going to mess up some things with Sam, but he will forgive you, and you will learn and not make the same mistakes again with the next horse or the ones after that..
Keep reading this forum, and get the magazine, and watch some of Exys videos, and continue to learn and learn.. and have fun with Sam .. he sounds like a real Gem ..

As Franca says.... "Its all about the Journey"...:eek:

[SarahandSam]

Titania, you made me cry. d; Thank you--I love my boy. I can never thank you and Exy enough for finding him and talking me into coming to take a look at him. I've learned more from him in 5 months than I have from any other horse in 2 years!

Franca, I totally understand what you're saying about not needing as much ground work and round penning with a horse that's good under saddle. I like round penning because I think it does help me communicate with him better, because I can see and read his reactions to things and find out what works and how he thinks in a way I can't under saddle, and so in that sense it is more for me than him at this point. He learns super-fast and loves learning new things, and it's fun to round pen with him, in general. He doesn't like repeating the same stuff at all, and short sessions seem to work best with him, too. We did a clinic a while back that was all round-penning--they were short tasks with long breaks in between, and he did awesome and seemed to really enjoy it. So the clinician invited him back for the second day to learn some more advanced stuff. But the second day, you could just see him thinking, "Wait a minute, I have to do this all again?" We never moved on to the advanced stuff because we just worked past a temper tantrum or two at the basics, and left it at that--he wasn't having fun with it like he normally does. So he likes it a lot sometimes, but some other days he just goes, "What's the point, lady?" We do have a great NH trainer who owns the place and he and his wife, who is also really knowledgeable, usually are around when I round pen and never hesitate to point out things when I do them wrong. (; They're also great for letting me know when the best time is to reward him and quit. I also need to round pen a little right now because I haven't tried cantering on Sam yet (intentionally, that is) and want to make sure he's comfortable transitioning up and carrying himself before I try it on his back... but that's really the only reason we round pen, to stretch out and to do something different now and then. All together we've round penned about 5 times since early October. I agree that once a horse is good under saddle, round penning and groundwork are more things to go back to when you have an issue rather than something to do all the time--it seems a little silly to set up a scenario where I need to force an issue in the round pen when he's good as gold under saddle.

We also do a little leading groundwork when I'm getting ready to mount up just so I can tighten the girth a little at a time, and it gives me a better sense of his mood before I get on him. But that's nothing major, just de-spooking with new things in the arena, etc. We did some short-longeing kind of stuff in the Ponyboy clinic we did, but as I mentioned, I am so god-awful with twirling a rope I spent most of the time untangling myself as Sam stood there looking at me with patient pity. So I tend to avoid that kind of groundwork altogether. d;

[SarahandSam]

Thanks Reata! That clarifies quite a bit. I am trying to always remember to observe him and see his reactions, and I think I'm getting better at it... The "having a plan" bit is also a great reminder--I sometimes forget that and it seems like that's when things always don't work out... imagine that!... Sam's a patient horse and has probably put up with a lot of miscommunication from me... I hope that I will never stop learning from him. (: I am definitely going to have to subscribe to the magazine. I saw a bunch of Exy's back issues at Equine Affaire and it seems like a great publication! I love reading the old articles on the website...

[Excess]

Sarah I just sort of want to echo what Franca has to say. Back when I first started in all this NH stuff I was all about groundwork. All I wanted to do was groundwork, groundwork, groundwork. Speedy on the other hand had other ideas. He kept saying "Mom, I KNOW all this stuff and WE don't need it" and for a long time I thought he was just being difficult. So I stopped doing the groundwork and realized that our relationship didn't detiorate or get worse or anything at all. In fact I think it improved because I started to work on other things that helped solidify our relationship.

Maybe just take a vacation from the groundwork. You and Sam have such a great relationship.

I once asked Julie Goodnight about there being such a thing as too much groundwork (as some clinicians say that there's no such thing) and she responded: http://www.juliegoodnight.com/questionsNew.php?id=134

[reata]

Interesting read Exy.. But ya know what.. I think Julie is missing the whole point..
Her groundwork sounds to me that is all about MAKING the horse. Nothing there about how groundwork helps the horse.. To me its all about how it helps the horse come through on the inside.. not superficial tasks or tricks.. Not once did she mention the softness.. I learnt a lot about JG reading her response to you and not much I liked..
It would be interesting to ask Ray or Buck or Bryan that very same question .. Or even our Cinch or 2 cents.. I bet I would like their answers a whole lot better..
JMHO :eek:

[Excess]

Interesting read Exy.. But ya know what.. I think Julie is missing the whole point..
Her groundwork sounds to me that is all about MAKING the horse. Nothing there about how groundwork helps the horse.. To me its all about how it helps the horse come through on the inside.. not superficial tasks or tricks.. Not once did she mention the softness.. I learnt a lot about JG reading her response to you and not much I liked..
It would be interesting to ask Ray or Buck or Bryan that very same question .. Or even our Cinch or 2 cents.. I bet I would like their answers a whole lot better..
JMHO :eek:

Oh don't worry Reata I know Julie isn't for many on here! But I find with a lot of people that aren't ready for this kind of horsemanship (not you Sarah!) that I can't show them Buck or Ray or Bryan. It's just way over their heads. I find Julie to be a decent person to send them to (considering the other choices are our dear PP and the like). I took a clinic with Julie and I learned a lot. I still see her from time to time and would do another clinic with her in the future. I will always remain an avid Julie fan and will always support her.

[SarahandSam]

I did think about that particular letter you had written to Julie, Exy. (: I agree that I like her way of explaining things--very straightforward. At Equine Affaire I liked her session on communicative behaviour in horses--all about noticing the "little things" before a kick or a bite or buck or other "bad" responses. She stressed that you can't punish an emotion, but can correct a behaviour. I asked her about how she suggests dealing with "warning signs"--like a horse who's thinking about biting or kicking, whether that falls into emotion or behaviour. Her explanation made sense: she teaches a horse boundaries, and if the horse steps over those boundaries, they're corrected. So if a horse moves its head toward you as it thinks about biting, you don't punish it for thinking about biting--that's emotion-driven. But you correct it putting its nose in your space, or for swinging a leg at you, or for doing something that oversteps its boundaries. That made sense to me--Sam will occasionally lift a hoof up as a kick threat at me, if I'm cleaning his sheath and go on too long, for example. He's mad about my doing something that annoys him. If I flipped out and screamed and yelled and hit him, he'd overreact and flip out too and we've gained nothing except making us both more nervous and wound-up. But if I calmly step him over and make him disengage or something like that, he knows that he can't lift a foot at me or he'll end up working, but I don't affect his emotions--he just gets a reminder of boundaries.

Anyway... my point is: all this is stuff that I'm sure every trainer says, one way or another; it seems like a pretty common sense idea. But the way Julie said it was simple and made sense to me. I would say that in Julie's response to Exy's question, what didn't come through that I got from other readings of hers and from seeing her clinics is that the benefit to the horse comes from knowing its boundaries and being comfortable working in the terms of the partnership. That was pretty clear at the clinics but not as much in her writing. (:

[Excess]

Anyway... my point is: all this is stuff that I'm sure every trainer says, one way or another; it seems like a pretty common sense idea. But the way Julie said it was simple and made sense to me. I would say that in Julie's response to Exy's question, what didn't come through that I got from other readings of hers and from seeing her clinics is that the benefit to the horse comes from knowing its boundaries and being comfortable working in the terms of the partnership. That was pretty clear at the clinics but not as much in her writing. (:

Thanks Sarah, I agree. Julie has to....dumb down....a lot of things for people. Especially the people that are at Equine Affaire and expos like these. When Titania and I did the clinic, we were by far the most advanced people there except for maybe one gentleman. Julie usually has a cap of 14 people on her clinics, but maybe the place we were at didn't get that memo because I think there was 22. Julie was excellent in adjusting to fit each person - which every clinician I'm sure does. But what I'm trying to get across, which I may fail miserably and may need Titania to explain better, is that Julie adjusts to fit the situation. She isn't lucky enough to have a bunch of people like us to work with. The people who read her website are not us. I'm not really sure I can express what I want to here. But in Julie's clinics she does talk about softness, does talk about feel, does talk about change. No, I don't think she's at the level of Ray, Buck or Bryan or Joe. But I still think she's a good horsewoman, a good trainer, a good clinician and a good friend.

[Titania]

Hmmm. JG... One: LOVE HER. Two: it's b/c of her clinic that I continued on this path. She opens the door a little bit to not-so-well classically trained knockheads like myself. Give us just enough without bruising our egos and encourages us to continue our training. CHA is her org right now. She has done a wonderful job and continues to hold high standards, certifying instructors which CHA has been doing wonderfully for so many years!

I continued with my instructor b/c of JG. My instructor, who at frist seemed to be old and didn't know what she was doing. She would talk about the darn weather, or my family and only give a little bit of direction. Little did I know, she was setting me up to find the right anwser. at first i was frustrated and wanted more guidance, but then I realized that the horse under me was happier at the end of the lesson for the first time ever. and i have never been happier.

JG is very brief and straight fwd in her answers. Her "boundries" aren't just help the human they are to protect the horse from the humans mistakes. To makes things less confusing for the horse. She realizes some people just aren't ever going to "get it" but they wil continue to own horses and so she tries to adjust her training so that the horse can be happy and the human can be safe.

and hopefully once that occurs and the human sees it as good, like exy, sarah, and I, then the horse lover will continue in their education looking to build on what they created.

We had the least training but were on the best horses in that clinic. Exy and I being trail riders learned to listen to our horses, trust them to carry us. many of the people in that clinic never thought to listen to their horse, so we saw a lot of struggling. By the end of that clinic you could see a change in the most of the people. and the ones that didn't change wasted their money and never will change.

Does that sum it up EXY?

[Two Cents]

Hi!

So, Ive been reading your notes the last few days, visiting with my ponies and a friend or two, thinking about all this stuff.

There are no straightforward here-is-how-you-do-it answers. Only judgement built on feel, and lots of mistakes made with lots of horses.


Sarah described her horse Sam as being wonderful in just about every way. Things were really going pretty well. So, what changed or progressed that started things going off track? Or making some really beautiful progress? Sometimes it can be pretty hard to truly understand just what is the cause and what is the effect.....especially from the horse's point of view.

As far as the groundwork goes.....

Sarah, let's say you're a newly minted CPA. You did well all through college, passed the test, and now you have a new job with an accounting firm. Great! The first day the boss sits you down, and has you take the CPA exam all over again just to make sure you really do know what you're doing. OK, fine. Then the next day you take it again. And Wednesday. And Thursday. On and on. For a month. Then you put in your full day's work and do it well. Doesn't matter, tomorrow not only do you have to pass it, you have to get every single question right. And even though you've proven over and over that you are capable and competent they make you take the damn thing over and over. In fact, even if you ace the exam but you didn't seem quite happy enough about taking it we'll make you take it again and again until you are happy. It isn't just boring and silly and pointless. It is demeaning and insulting and counterproductive. You wind up hating your boss, hating your job, hating your life. You go home and yell at the kids, kick your dog, say something incredibly hurtful to your spouse that you don't really mean anyway. What you need to do is demand that your boss recognize that you know your job, you're good at it, and you insist on being treated with the professional respect you have earned.

So, every horse needs to understand the basics. Start in the round pen, maybe do some things with a lariat, or just a halter and lead, and loose. Get all four feet moving in all four directions at the speed and gait and direction and manner you choose, using very subtle movements and changes in the feel from the rope or halter or your body or energy. Someone watching would not be able to see what you did to move your horse from a walk to a trot to a stop to a hook on to turning and so on. The horse's feet become your feet. Then get riding, and find a way to ask for all the same movements and transitions and bends and feels in a way that the horse can relate back to the groundwork. So he knows that it all had a purpose. It was not just pointless nonsense done to amuse the human. It was done to help him understand your intentions and help him succeed.

Every time you go visit with your horse you have a hundred opportunities to go through all of the necessary groundwork just in the course of your typical activity. Catch him from the pasture or pen or stall. Halter him correctly. But change things up. DOn't become predictable. Send him past you through a gait. Ask for a nice bend, hind goes left, front goes right and he settles, you come through, close the gate. Back him a step or two. Walk over to the tack room or trailer or barn or arena. You'll probably come to another gate. Lead him through past you with the other hand this time. Now get a nice bend, hind goes right, front goes left and he settles. At some point you'll need to back him a bit. Nice flex at the poll, backing from a feel down the rope. Maybe back him in an arc if you can find a good reason to. Is he tight and bothered and a bit upset? OK, you need to work on some things? Which things? No one can tell you for sure with this particular horse on this particular day. You'll have to sort that out. But the answer just about always has something to do with the feet, and usually it's the hind feet. If everything is going well.....all four feet are moving all four directions nice and soft, with a nice quiet expression, no braces, well, get on and go. Or quit for the day. Or just hang out with your horse. But don't make him sit down and take the damn CPA exam. He IS capable. He IS competent. He KNOWS his job and he DOES it well. He deserves the same respect and acknowledgement and dignity that you do.

If this is done well, the whole conversation about establishing boundaries and correcting emotions or behaviors and all that stuff just will not happen. It won't have to. The horse would not ever consider doing anything like biting or kicking or walking over you or whatever....why would he? When he knows what he is to do with all four feet at all times in response to a feel from you his manners will be impeccable without you ever having to bring it up.

It is wonderful that you want to learn more about the different things you can do on the ground with a horse, and learn how to extablish that relationship you want. So, go out and find yourself a horse to work with. Maybe someone has a youngish colt that doesn't know much yet.....all the way up to an extablished outlaw. This is the horse that can really help you learn and get the groundwork going. You benefit, the horse benefits, the horse's owner benefits. It's not like you need to charge anything or make any kind of formal agreement. Make some mistakes, struggle, constantly be trying to understand what the horse is thinking, how he is feeling about what you're doing. Get those feet moving all four directions soft and fluid and responsive. There is a feel coming up right out of your heart and the horse feels it. Let him. Slow down your mind and your feet and your hands. Send that feel to him through the lariat or lead or just the air.

Have fun with this....enjoy the process. Your horse will too.

[Sue]

Excellent post, 2C! That put it in perspective clearly! Really good analogy about the CPA... sounds a little like working for the government, lol...

[Titania]

Sarah - we have 17 that need loving! you are always welcome and we can play and try figure it all out together, if you wanted to practice on a different horse! we have everything from a 1year old to a 25 year old!

[SarahandSam]

That was a great post, Two Cents! I also really liked the CPA analogy. I've had jobs where I have had to do that before, basically--justify myself each and every day doing the same thing I've done before--and it does breed resentment. So that makes sense.

Titania, I would love to come play with your horses! And ride the ponies. Let's wait 'til it gets warm though. d; I don't even want to leave the house today...

Sam should already have one less little stressor in his life... he got switched to a different pasture buddy this week and has been getting an "A" on his report card, according to the barn owner. She turned Sam out first and then put in Sunny, aka "Superfreak," a crazy Arab who's been getting bullied by his pasturemate. Sam was munching hay. The conversation apparently went as follows:

Sam (lifting head briefly): Hey.
Sunny (standing warily by gate): Um... hey?
Sam: So, ya gonna eat some hay?
Sunny: What?
Sam: Ya gonna eat some hay?
Sunny: Really?
Sam: Yeah.
Sunny: So you're not gonna chase me?
Sam: Nah. Ya gonna eat some hay?
Sunny: Um... okay?

And now they're friends.

[Mulie]

I love the CPA analogy, too. I've been working on different things to do in the course of the day to work on these things without her really knowing that's what we're doing. Now, If I could just get her to do my tax return we'd be in business.