Catching the Uncatchable.

[Kyzteke]

First, alittle history:

I bred this filly (now 6 yrs old) and acquired her when she was 5 mos old. I owned her dam (purchased at age 12), plus bred her half sibling and her 3/4 sibling and handled them from birth on.

I am a former pro horsewoman, and while I'm certainly no BB, I'm fairly handy. All the horses I've /bred/sold have gotten high praise on their manners, including feet, head, ears, loading, personal space, lightness in hand etc.

But every one of this "family" has been particularly stinky about being caught. They are Akhal Tekes, a breed known to be very sensitive and fussy, so that may be part of it. Normally, by maturity, I had most of this mare's relatives so that I could walk them down within just afew minutes, but this gal is the worst case I've ever had by far.

Over the years I have worked with her regularly on being caught. Last year I used a round pen and within 20 mins. she had hooked on and was following me around like a dog. Sweet as pea. We did that several times and she was excellent. Now she is willing to hook on after only afew minutes in the RP.

I can approach her in the pasture when I am empty handed, but if she sees a halter she is o/o there and at high speed. And this is a mare that hasn't had to do a lick of undersaddle work in her life (she is for breeding)!

EVENTUALLY I can usually walk her down...but it can take as long as 20 mins, and I have a very bad hip, so it's no fun doing all that walking.

Yesterday she pulled this on me in a 5 acres pasture! Because the rest of my herd understand the concept of who I am after, they all stood quietly munching their hay, while I did my best to "round pen" the mare, keeping her away from the herd for some 10-15 mins. and holding my body is the most unthreatening posture I could imagine, till she FINALLY approached and allowed me to halter her.

BTW, when I had first approached her, she let me quietly stroke her neck and talk to her with zero sign of anxiety, then as soon as I lifted the halter she was gone! So it wasn't that she was afraid of me...she just didn't want to be caught!

This is a giant PITA to go through each time.

**** So why the heck doesn't she "get it?" **** Geeze, she's six years old now!!

I've never beaten this mare, she is great to lead, with her feet, "following the feel", loading etc. She doesn't kick, bite or crowd me. I think she is very sensitive (super sensitive) and not very bold (just like her dam & sisters).

I've never used food treats to catch a horse, but I'm actually thinking of trying it with this one....treat her when I first approach her, then again when she allows me to put the halter on.

Any other suggestions?

[clk]

It's a free country, and to each his or her own, but I've never gotten the aversion to using treats. You have very intelligent sensitive horses. Do you like getting a paycheck? So do they.

I never go out to the feild without a cookie. Never. And once they come, they get that one, and that's it. I think horses like take it to the bank consistency. They don't nag me for another as we walk in.

I also never walk out without a treat. And they get don't get it until they are loose and the gate is shut. Ergo, I never have a horse spin a bolt out to the field. They stand and wait for the paycheck.

All of my horses come when they are called, and often at a canter. The one I am riding and the old retired guys. The "uncatchable" guy in the feild with my retired guy comes at a canter too.

They can sort out a paycheck from being spoiled. Boundaries are still boundries even with a cookie.

To each their own, but I'd make your life a little easier, give her a reason to meet you at the gate.

[Kyzteke]

It's a free country, and to each his or her own, but I've never gotten the aversion to using treats. You have very intelligent sensitive horses. Do you like getting a paycheck? So do they.

I never go out to the feild without a cookie. Never. And once they come, they get that one, and that's it. I think horses like take it to the bank consistency. They don't nag me for another as we walk in.

I also never walk out without a treat. And they get don't get it until they are loose and the gate is shut. Ergo, I never have a horse spin a bolt out to the field. They stand and wait for the paycheck.

All of my horses come when they are called, and often at a canter. The one I am riding and the old retired guys. The "uncatchable" guy in the feild with my retired guy comes at a canter too.

They can sort out a paycheck from being spoiled. Boundaries are still boundries even with a cookie.

To each their own, but I'd make your life a little easier, give her a reason to meet you at the gate.


Yeah, I agree with much of what you've said, but it does sort of irk me that I have to "bribe" this horse.

However, more importantly I feel I may be mis-reading her somehow for her to still not trust me. I mean, like the honest horsewoman I try to be, I am very slow to blame the horse for their behavior. Instead I try to look in the mirror. Yet no other horse in my care (past or present) is as bad about this as she is....and that includes 4 mo. old foals and breeding stallions!

Could it be she is just a stubborn, lazy bitch? Am I allowed to think that?<g>

[clk]

Snort... well of course you are allowed to think that, although some natural horsemanship devotees may have you shot at dawn without a blindfold for actually saying it out loud.

I think you hit the nail on the head though. This is not a cookie cutter deal. All horses are individuals as are we, and sometimes we run across a being that draws outside the lines. Maybe you have a gem in the rough here!

I don't need to tell you she knows how you feel about her, and the feeling might be mutual at times. In my opinion, yet another reason to use another tool, set it up to be a good deal for her. It might not be. if it's offered as a bribe, she might take it that way. Offer it as a paycheck, as a thanks for her making an effort. If using a treat doesn't help or make things worse, don't do it anymore.

When the ones that say, "I won't and you can't make me", make a change and say, "ok, I'll make an effort for you", you often get one heck of an effort. And that is our paycheck.

[MrsC]

Try just getting her ready to be caught. Plan some opportunities to go out, with the halter, when you don't really need her. When you finally get up to her, don't even try to put on the halter. Instead of bribing her with food, just scratch her in her favorite places, then turn around and leave. Do that a number of times, until she isn't as suspicious and starts looking forward to your approach and that scratching. Eventually while you're scratching, rub the halter rope or halter against her. If she's OK, be more careless with it, let her see it, even move it up near her head, but don't put it on.

Casually slide the rope over her neck, and maybe start to put the halter on but don't. Walk away. When you eventually do put it on, do it casually, with lots of rubbing and scratching, not like you're "trapping" her or with the idea, "aha, I gotcha." Then take it off and leave. Eventually put it on and take her with you. Make haltering a nice thing, with something in it for her. We had a very suspicious horse like this. He got better and better, and now even a stranger can catch him. But I still always give him a scratch before I halter him--my thanks that he let me catch him.

[Kyzteke]

Holy smoke -- we did all of this 5 years ago! After working with her for over a month when I first got her, I finally turned her out in the big pasture with 3 other horses her age, thinking I had her at a good place. ALL of the other horses would cluster around me when I went out there and all could be caught without one single bit of drama.

Then I went up to her -- and I always speak sweetly/scratch/pet all of my horses before I even attempt to raise the halter -- and all I had to do was place the rope around her neck and she was outta there!

After various attempts (over a matter of days) to put the halter on, I finally took all the other horses out of the pasture. Didn't make a bit of difference.

Put the quietest, sweetest mare I own in with her -- you know, the type that would put the halter on herself if she had thumbs -- didn't make a bit of difference. Took that mare out too...nada.

So, knowing that this mare (then only about 8 mos old) was food driven, I started taking some grain out to her and placing it in a shallow ground feeder. At first we I just stood there, rubbing her...she didn't care. Then rubbing her neck/poll, ears. Then rubbing her with the lead rope. Then rubbing her with the halter. Then draping the halter over the edge of the feeder so she had to eat right next to it. Then gradually rubbing her face with the halter while she ate. Then making her put her nose through the halter to get to the grain. THEN gently laying the tie across her poll while she ate.

THREE WEEKS LATER I was finally able to put the halter on, tie it and lead her up without her totally freaking out and running for the hills.

Since then, we've had many, many refresher courses in the round pen, and she "hooks on" faster than any horse I have.

But put her in a situation where she can run away and she does....and again, I must emphasis she has ZERO fear of me when I am not carrying a halter. For that matter, I can walk right up to her, pet her everywhere, etc. even with the halter as long as I don't try to put it on her. But if I raise the halter or rope to actually put it on her, she suddenly could care less about scratches...she's gone, gone, gone. Then she'll get 30 ft away and turn and face me...it seems to me like a big horsey FY. So I really don't think she is afraid of me.

No, I think she just totally has my number. Again, these days I can always catch her eventually, because I don't ever give up, but I'm hurting so bad by the time I finally catch her, it's a real temptation to beat the holy crap o/o her by then. I don't, but man, I'm sure not liking her at that point.

I'm thinking the "paycheck" idea is the best. I'll just take her back to the round pen and when she hooks on, I'll give her a treat (AFTER the halter goes on).

She is obviously smarter than me and seems to think she deserves special treatment. So I guess I just need to treat her like the Queen she thinks she is. Typical Akhal Teke...

I'll let you guys know how it turns out.




Try just getting her ready to be caught. Plan some opportunities to go out, with the halter, when you don't really need her. When you finally get up to her, don't even try to put on the halter. Instead of bribing her with food, just scratch her in her favorite places, then turn around and leave. Do that a number of times, until she isn't as suspicious and starts looking forward to your approach and that scratching. Eventually while you're scratching, rub the halter rope or halter against her. If she's OK, be more careless with it, let her see it, even move it up near her head, but don't put it on.

Casually slide the rope over her neck, and maybe start to put the halter on but don't. Walk away. When you eventually do put it on, do it casually, with lots of rubbing and scratching, not like you're "trapping" her or with the idea, "aha, I gotcha." Then take it off and leave. Eventually put it on and take her with you. Make haltering a nice thing, with something in it for her. We had a very suspicious horse like this. He got better and better, and now even a stranger can catch him. But I still always give him a scratch before I halter him--my thanks that he let me catch him.

[spadebithorseman]

If you are going to use treats, use them after you have caught her. Then give her a reward. It is best to not use food as a bribe as other things can sometimes develop.

What do you two do together once you have caught her? Something in her mind is keeping her from wanting to be caught. You just need to find out what it is.

[JRW]

Some questions you might ask yourself:
Why would she want to let you catch her? Once you answer that, you have something to work with. You're planning on taking her away from her friends and cozy life (even if just for a few minutes). Why would she want to do that?