HEY!, can we talk about HAY!!!!!!!

[lambchop]

apparently we are having a hay shortage here in my area (western NC) and there will not be a second cutting due to lack of rain. I have moved my horses home and realize I am pretty clueless as to where I need to start looking for hay, and a friend said I better start finding a connection now for winter!

Any suggestions how I should start looking for a hay connection? How much hay are we talking about for two horses? What are everyone's feelings on round bales?

Could anyone help me out with finding some grass??

[Excess]

Start looking now and get it in as soon as you can. Hay shortages are no fun at all. Luckily in this area there's not much problem finding hay. We sometimes get up to 3 cuttings. I have a friend in Alabama who does hay and she gets 4 cuttings or more. We are starting our first cutting right now and probably will get 2 cuttings this year. You can go here: http://www.hayexchange.com/ to find hay in your area. If you're in Western NC also look in your surrounding states to see if they have hay you can get also. YOU DO NOT want to be caught without hay. And the prices go up the closer to winter, and the more into winter you get.

[JRW]

Lambchop,
Sorry to hear about your plight. Last year we had too much rain to make hay and there was a huge shortage. I bought it by the semi load early on and needed two loads to get through to haying season. The hay I got in the second load was baled with a lot of mudballs.... not good, but it wasn't moldy so I used it anyway.

By midwinter, I was getting pressure from friends and neighbors to sell some of my hay to them. But I knew better. Apparently there started to be big bales available at the feed stores, so my friends were okay.

This spring, I had it calculated to last until now, but I had a female guest show up with 3 horses and their idea of "buying their own hay" apparently meant paying me for hay off of my stack. My hay wasn't for sale though. After feeding the guest horses 50 bales, I told her she had to replace the hay or her horses were about to go hungry. We found someone wanting to get rid of last years hay to stack the new stuff on and the guest got a very good deal at $5/bale and the farmer threw in 10 free bales. She stayed on long enough to feed the free bales and then moved on. I am working my way through the 50 replacement bales. I feed about 2 bales a day.

If I was you I would check all your local resources and if that didn't look promising, I would start looking in a wider region and planning to pay for freight. If you can and have storage, buy a whole years worth. Don't despair though, hay happens.

Yrs,
JRW

[red]

welcome to the desert southwest...just checked with the feed store..the cost of timothy hay per bale, is $23.00, a three way oat..coming in at 13.50...per bale. And alfalfa, is running at 11.95-12.50..per bale, with a rough tally of 16 bales per ton...so, once again...the price of fuel, and the price to irrigate, is costing...there seems to be enough hay, this is not a shortage driven price, it is a cost effective price...they pass on the cost, to make it effective...the farmer is the one who is in trouble, so say your prayers for those boys.

I have a truck and trailer load to order, and am price shopping, but it is a sellers market...I used to work for a hay broker, years ago, he brokered for all of the race tracks, the zoo, and dairies, knows his stuff, and I spoke to him last week, and he says we aint seen nothing, yet...

oh, goody.

love, red

[JRW]

Hey, Red,
My neighbor cuts grass hay, sends it to California, brings back alfalfa and makes money on the deal. Top hay prices here are $180/ton.

I am enamored of haygrazer these days. I ran out this winter, but for my longears, it was good good stuff. It goes at $100/ton.

Yrs,
JRW

[Excess]

Wow Read. I can't even CONCEIVE of paying that much for hay! Hey went up here too. Instead of paying $1.75-2.75 per bale, we're paying up to $5!!!!!!!!!

[Scout]

I figure about 3 tons of hay/year/horse. I have smallish quarter horses. There are bales and there are bales -- I feed grass hay and the bales I buy are about 65 pounds each so just about 30-31 bales a ton. The price per bale can fluctuate quite a bit even in the same geographic area. The range in this area is anywhere from $5.50/bale to nearly $10/bale for grass hay. Trucking and stacking costs are in addition to that. The mix I feed is brome, orchard, timothy.

The real hit is in transporting it. The cost of fuel plays a big role. How far do you have to ship it? One semi load or multiple smaller loads? Semi loads from the mountains have hauled anywhere from 18 to 20 tons. Often times, I'd split the load with my neighbor and we'd use the same crew for unloading and stacking.

I try to buy for the year in approximately two shipments -- June/July and again late summer/early fall. I split the load so that I can feed it down to help with storage.

When you find a hay dealer who provides good product reliably -- treat them with kid gloves, appreciate them, have cold water/pop for them as they stack and protect the connection. Hay availability varies a great deal year to year. In one drought year, feed stores stopped carrying hay -- it was too expensive for it to be worth the trouble.

My advice is get on it early. If they say they can deliver on X date -- change your schedule to accomodate their schedule. I have the same view of scheduling my farrier. You may need to consider having it trucked from farther away than you're used to.

[lambchop]

I have so much to learn!! I am really confused about the different types pf hay, and I don't want to sound like an idiot when I call a hay supplier.

What are some important questions I should ask...

Also, why feed alfalfa? I know alot of people feed a flake of alfalfa and a flake of grass hay. I know that alfalfa is a legume, but do my horses need it also?

What is everyone's feelings on round bales? I like the idea of my horses always having something to munch on, but they seem messy and do they rot or mold out in the elements?

I am sorry I have so many questions, I am trying to learn as much as I can!

[Excess]

Also, why feed alfalfa? I know alot of people feed a flake of alfalfa and a flake of grass hay. I know that alfalfa is a legume, but do my horses need it also?

What is everyone's feelings on round bales? I like the idea of my horses always having something to munch on, but they seem messy and do they rot or mold out in the elements?

Questions are good! I have never had my horses at home. In the DR they're in a pasture and there's no such thing as hay, believe it or not. But some of hte place I boarded at made ME have to research hay because they were quite ignorant.

Personally, I do not like afalfa hay, but most horses do. It is higher in fat and very high in phospherous and can imbalance the phospherous:calcium ratio in horses. Afalfa can also make some horses hot. You usually would feed a lot less afalfa hay than grass hay. I think people feed one flake each because usually one would feed three flakes of grass hay (at least here) and one flake of afalfa can substitute for two grass hay flakes. If you can avoid it, I wouldn't feed afalfa. But some areas in the states afalfa is cheaper and easier to get and really can't be avoided. A timothy/afalfa mix bale should be fine.

Roundbales I have mixed feelings about. It really depends WHERE you put the roundbales. The problem is a lot of people put them outside. For cows this is fine. But not for horses. The bale is exposed to the elements. And there is a LOT of waste with a roundbale. Even if it is in a roundbale feeder. And speaking of roundbale feeders, most of them are NOT made for horses. Even if they say they're made for horses, they're not. I've seen horses get stuck in them, and I've seen their manes get rubbed off.

Two barns that I was at managed to come up with ways to feed the roundbales indoors. They made roundbale feeders in a run-in. In one run-in they made a sort of massive hay rack which the roundbale fit. It only had three or four slats - shaped like a wide V - on eaither side. It was all made of wood. There was nothing above the horses that they could rub on. Another barn deepened their run-in and made a sort of manger for the roundbale.

So if you have a way to keep your round bale inside and keep it dry you should be fine.

[red]

pros and cons to everything...keeping things as natural as you can for your pony is the key..and what is available, and affordable is the door you must find...remember that horses are foragers, by nature, they eat all day long, little bits here walk a ways to water, little bits there, a nap or two...but it goes on all day long, and long into the night...in the "natural" herd. Alfalfa is what we feed here..because that is the normal...I feed a flake in the morning a flake at night...grass hay is not abundant here. The ideal, for me, is oat/alfalfa/barley mixed hay...if you feed any barley in your hay, make sure it is not bearded barley, which is hard for a horse to eat...the best advice, is speak to your vet, about your concerns...he will help you gage the advantages of the feeds available to you, and adjust them accordingly, adding supplements, or extra protien, for youngsters or oldsters...no pelleted feeds for me...I want to see what they are eating, and like us, the more concentrated the food, the farther away from "natural" it is...

One of the most important aspect of feeding is the the satifaction horses get, from same time, same same eating...their whole day revolves around feeding, and their pecking order establishes their eating order...so much we do not know, about the ponies, and how they view their place in the world we create for them. Feed stores love questions. Ask ask ask...but ask your vet first, and foremost...he has a vested interest in your ponies, and their well being...

love,
red.

[J.W.]

I reckon that folks need to figure out what type of hay, and the method of feeding it, works best for their situation. Quite a bit would depend upon the location and climate. Here we usually have about 20 head of horses on our modest rancho. All horses have access to quality grass hay or good grass 24 hours per day. We put up some hay, and purchase about 50% of what we feed. 90% of the hay we feed is in round bales, and it works well for us. There is some waste with round bales, but not a whole lot really. As for mold in round baled hay.........sure you can find some mold spots once in a while. Since the horses have access to all the hay they want, they won't eat the less than desirable stuff. In the past 25 years, we have had one colic......and that was a stallion that came here from elsewhere, had been kept in a stall all his life, and I believe had a past history of colic. He was eating the best primo grass hay from our kept in the shed, square bale supply too.

As for hay prices........the Flint Hills region here produces a lot of top quality native grass bluestem hay, and this year is fixing to be a good year for production. However, the demad is so high through the US and Mexico, that even the local prices have gone up. Currently about $150 per ton ($5 sq bale), about $85 per ton ($50 round bale).......not including delivery.
adios, JW

[dpony]

Lambchop, where in WNC are you? I'm in Sylva and am going to TN this weekend to get a load of mixed grass. My regular supplier here has gotten hay (coastal) from SC and GA in the past, but I don't think any hay is going to "escape" from either of those states this year. Since I've used this supplier, I'm at the bottom of the pecking order for all of the local growers, and their long-term customers scarffed up all of their first cuttings, which were 50-60% of normal yield. A second cutting is iffy, and what I expect will happen is that it will eventually start to rain, the grass will grow, and they won't be able to get it cut and up because it will be too wet. It is a bit of a mess. Argh!

Bear in mind that the $20/bale bales in CA are much larger than the $2-5/bale bales in other areas. I also think $2-5 bales are going to go the way of the dodo bird pretty soon, with shipping costs being what they are, unless you're in a situation to pick up from the field.

My horses are easy keepers and I feed a forage-based feed plus beet pulp, so I plan on 15 lb/day per horse when there is grass (~April to Sept. or Oct.) and 20 lb/day when there isn't. Mine are on grass during the day and in a dry lot w/ access to the barn at night; many people around here turn out at night and their horses sleep all day, so they feed much less when there is grass, which requires normal rainfall which we do NOT have this year. I have a friend who's TB needed something extra over the winter, so we got some alfalfa; my three share one large flake a day with their night feeding, but I've gone years without feeding alfalfa hay and will not be looking to buy more when this runs out.

I'm hoping that this source in TN will work out and then I'll be making several trips to TN over the summer to stock up for the winter.

Round bales are cheaper; there can be more waste. There are also some issues with botulism and mold unless they are carefully put up and stored. They are also more difficult to handle, you need a tractor if you have to move them at all. There are plenty of people who feed horses with round bales, however, and there are certainly a lot more round bales to be found these days.

[JRW]

I would not feed alfalfa if it weren't the standard here. They love it, that is for sure, but they would love locoweed for the same reason. Yummy! If grass is available and suits your pocketbook, then I would stick with that.

My animals have learned to EAT whatever flavor is available and to ignore the icky stuff when I don't catch it and toss it over the fence to the range cattle. The local range cattle are handy bad hay disposal units. They will eat almost anything.

Yrs,
JRW

[lambchop]

hmmmm, hay is so confusing...
I have seen many ads here for a grass and alfalfa mix, would that be bad or the same as feeding a flake of alfalfa and grass hay seperately?

I have found several sources that I would like to call, are there any questions I should ask?

dpony, I am just outside of Asheville, in Weaverville

thanks so much to everyone for all of the great advice!!!!!!

[Bama Girl]

Hey guys, I am new here and thought I could maybe get some info.
I run a feed n seed store and we are looking to buy some hay bales.
I am not really picky about the brand of hay,as long as they weigh in and are kept in good dry conditions.
We are in a dry period around our city and are in a bad need for as many bales as we can get.
We can pick up a tractor trailer full at a time, if the price is right.!
If anyone has any idea...drop me a line, I would greatly appreciate it.