How to tie a fiador

[JRW]

I have tried to figure out how to tie the fiador (throatlatch on a hackamore) to the bosal for a long time. There MUST be a proper way as there is always a "proper way". Ed Connell never shows that detail in the drawing in his book. I wrote to Weaver leather and asked and they ignored me. There is no one around here that is concerned with proper traditions that I can ask. I am on my own...

But.... several of you are likely to know. Ah!!! A repository of esoteric knowledge!!!! What luck!

First question.... does the fiador get tied on after the mecate? Second question where on the heel is the ideal location? Third, what kind of knot? Photographs will be greatly appreciated.

Yrs,
JRW
ps. I admit it: I am compelled to think "there has got to be a better way", when I am trying to guess how to do stuff. Yes, I was the person who wrote to Syd Hill and asked them about the proper way to put an Australian saddle on a horse. They ignored me too. It's a character flaw perhaps, but I can't help but want to know. I need a mentor.
pss. I thought it was possible that Aussies could saddle from the right since they drive on the left.... you never know until you ask! I finally got some good answers on the stockman's forum.

[red]

this is not so traditional...lol...but I just looked it up on wikipedia...type in the word fiadore...and it takes you to "tying a fiadore knot" ya gotta look around for the link..but with a hot cup of coffee, and about ten minutes, you will have a wealth of information....in color...it gives an example of a knoted halter, as the knot..and tells you how to tie that..is pretty easy to follow...

love,
red

[lmullen]

I will try to forward pictures of fiador.
It is the only knot that didin't originate from sailors knots.
Hope you don't need this right away.

[JRW]

Wait!!! I am not trying to tie a fiador knot!!!! That is the point. I can tie one of those just fine. What I don't know is how to connect the bottom of the fiador (throatlatch) to the bosal.

They are two different things the fiador and the fiador knot.... I am NOT asking about the KNOT!!!! The fiador is not tied to the bosal with a fiador knot. Or at least I don't think it is. The fiador knot ends up making the loops at the bottom of a rope halter. I tie all my rope halters with fiador knots.

I am totally shocked that you would think I was talking about a fiador knot, NOT! Well, that's just it, isn't it. How can you ask someone how to do something if you can't even tell them what it is. I feel like such a failure in communication!!!

Here is a fiador in the HitchingPostSupply catalog:
http://www.hitchingpostsupply.com/product.asp?specific=jojqppk8

The knot in the middle of the fiador appears to be a fiador knot, but how the heck it is attached to the bosal ends? I know it is really simple but all the illustrations I find of the situation show about this level of detail.

Yrs,
JRW

[Mulie]

Page 145 in Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding has a very clear and detailed picture. You might be able to find that at the library, it's sure an interesting book with lots of other stuff you might find interesting.

[JRW]

I found a really pretty picture of it:
http://brokenhearttrading.com/online_gallery/hackamore/gallery_hackamore_2.html

Now there is some fine workmanship!

[JRW]

Hey, here is something else... it's calling it the hackamore knot!
http://www.hought.com/brbooks-bosal2.html

[JRW]

Sometimes you have to do it for yourself:
"The fiador is attached is to the bosal just above the bosal heel knot using a doubled jug knot ."

http://www.knotworkn.com/knots_Lashings.html

Yrs,
JRW

[JRW]

I looked at the only thing I could find on the doubled jug knot, but I think the Asher jug knot is the one to try.... will let you know how it turns out.... new camera coming in the mail next week.... expect photos.

http://www.expertvillage.com/videos/knot-tying-uncommon-asher-sling.htm

Yrs,
JRW

[JRW]

Okay... one last note about this....

If you look at the page with the hackamore knot, what they mean by doubled jug knot becomes crystal clear.... its just using both loops below the fiador knot.

I hope someone will find this collection of links useful. I wasn't able to find these things when I went to searching around before. Now I know that I can do it.

Yrs,
JRW

[lmullen]

Regards,
Three knots to the fiador.

Fiador
'Jug knot"
Tie knot for adjustment.

The jug knot goes on the bosal at the heel knot.
You need to carefully open the jug knot,
pull the double loop out.
insert the heel knot of the bosal through center of jug knot,
put the double loop back through the branches of the bosal and the jug knot.
Then adjust the whole thing to fit.

I generally put the get down portion of mecate through double loop.

Note! I don't put get down through any belt!
If tail gets down through loop it ties you off to the belt!! Bad!!
Put the get down through belt loops instead.
They can be repaired, and you won't have to be.

[JRW]

Lmullen,
I am glad that you said that about the belt loops. I just have never been comfortable to put the get-down in my belt either so I end up having it in not very good places, like falling out of my pocket.

I am thinking that putting a loop of easily breakable leather (shoe string?) on my belt would be a good idea. Then the get-down could just be in a quick-release through the breakaway string.

The adjustment tie knot at the bottom of the fiador..... hmmmm....Well, I need to get some rope out and play with it.

Yrs,
JRW
ps. I have learned though hard experience that anticipating accidents is usually a good idea. OUCH!!!
pss. About those tails at the end of ropes.... I put a mustang on one of those tie blocker gadgets without considering the braided back tail. He got the rope going about 100 miles an hour before he was to the end of it (14ft). The gadget did not work as advertised. The rope tail stuck tight. The blocker was hooked to a welded horseshoe on a hitching post. The welds broke. Horseshoe, blocker, and 14 ft rope went careening around the property behind one agitated mustang. Horseshoe hooked everything they passed and caused general crashing of stuff. This did not help the situation. Mustang ran into forested area behind pen. It was fall and the leaves were all wet and slimy on the ground. Mustang slipped sideways and got pinned under the metal pipe rails of the pen. I thought we would have to get a torch to cut him out, but the slimy leaves gave us enough help that we were able to drag him out. He still doesn't like ropes. The sticking power of a rope tail should never be left unconsidered. NOT UNDER MY BELT!!!

[FrancaV]

Note! I don't put get down through any belt!
If tail gets down through loop it ties you off to the belt!! Bad!!
Put the get down through belt loops instead.
They can be repaired, and you won't have to be.Hm. If you put a small loop of the rope into your belt I don't see how the tail could possibly get pulled in and stuck. Not possible the way I do it anyhow. I test it frequently and it pulls right out with only a small tug. Yikes, no way I'd put the thing in my belt loops - it would get stuck for sure, tail or no tail, and I sure wouldn't count on the belt loops ripping before some serious damage could be done to the ol' bod!!! But to each her own, I guess. ;)