Vaccinations

[Excess]

I'm curious as to what vaccinations people get for their horses. My farrier is a natural barefoot trimmer and is very pro-holistic. I also use an equine nutritionalist for my horse. Both are in the "anti vaccination movement" and say that people shouldn't vaccinate or worm their horses. There are sometimes some slight stress marks on hooves and the farrier always asks if the horse had been wormed and says that the stress marks are probably from being wormed and that horses shouldn't be wormed more than once a year if that. My nutritionalist is very anti-vaccination and says that they are not necessary.

Now my mindset is that I keep my horse at a boarding facility. Not only that but a training and rescue facility. While they take the necessary precautions to keep horses that come in and out separate, you still have horses constantly coming in and out and some (the rescues) look like they're on death row - as I have shared pictures of our latest rescue with others. I also trailer Speedy to trail rides all over this half of the state and I do one or two clinics a year. With all this exposure to different places and different horses, I think it's logical to take the necessary precautions and worm and vaccinate him regularly. You have no idea what he's going to come into contact with.

Not to mention a friend of ours who keeps their horses at home some 10 minutes from our barn found a rabid raccoon in her barn.

I'm also an "embassy brat" and grew up traveling all over the world with my mother who worked with the American Embassy. Occaisionally I still travel to various regions in Africa to visit friends and family. I would never go there without vaccinations. When we lived in Africa we had to get shots every two months and get blood drawn regularly.

Anyway I feel that it is necessary to get shots and wormings on my horse. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm curious as to what people on here think.

[lambchop]

I am all for natural meathods whenever possible, but, horses are domesticated animals. I think worming and vaccinations are important. We have taken these animals out of their natural environent and it is our responsibility to take care of them. If you worm and vaccinate your dogs/cats shouldn't you take care of your horses also???

[JRW]

Vaccinations are one of those things people get really opinionated about. I like to think about it as if it was me getting vaccinated. Would I like a vaccine for West Nile fever?... yep! I have lots of mosquitos and horses have died around here of it. I surely do wish they had a human vaccination. Would I like to be vaccinated against encephalitis?... it's pretty rare, but I it is such an ugly way to go..... I will take the shot on that too. Rabies.... hmmmm. Probably not as it is really rare here. Nothing else is anything I ever even consider.

It would be nice to live in a world where we could just decide to worm when the fecal egg counts said we needed to. Not worming if you live in a wormy place is just a set up for colic. But again consider worms in humans.... they are really only a problem where it doesn't freeze hard enough or dry out thoroughly enough to kill the parasites.

It's one thing to make your own choice about these two things, but it's pretty serious when the professionals you rely on advise you to go against normal horsecare practices. Are they right??? Is it worth the worry to find out?

Yrs,
JRW

[cynthia peterson]

i hear this theory going around too. and i spent over $300 for shots for 5 horses (and 3 coggins tests) i'm thinking that would look prettier as, say, a new bridle, or more conchos, more Buck DVDs, or something along that lines.
and that doesn't even start on the wormer expense.
no doubt, some of those "rescues" WERE horses no one wormed.
we feed cattle, and i have sure seen how costly it is to NOT worm or give shots. getting feeder cattle without shots is a real crapshot, exp. if they come from the salebarn. and i am just throwing grain away not worming them.
still, cattle are only here only a year. people don't have shots every year. and who hasn't had a horse come down with a cough (just before the show you were training them for) EVEN after you gave them every shot the vet had!?
so, where there"s smoke, there's fire. maybe we don't need to give those shots every year (like humans) or just horses that are going to be around places they could catch something. maybe it is a vets dream of "easy money". still, i gave shots, still cheaper them even one of them catching something. and go without worming, NO, NEVER!

[Excess]

It's one thing to make your own choice about these two things, but it's pretty serious when the professionals you rely on advise you to go against normal horsecare practices. Are they right??? Is it worth the worry to find out?

Yrs,
JRW

I agree JRW. There is really nothing NATURAL about anything we do with horses. NATURAL is letting them loose and letting them fend for themselves. Find their own feed, find their own water. Etc. It doesn't really matter how big of a pasture we have for them (in our case we have a 40acre pasture which is big but no substitute for the wild) or whatever, we can't replicate what they have in the wild. I have worked at two zoos and in both we tried to to mimic their environment and wild habitats and food as closely as we possibly could, but we just can't.

I personally can't sleep at night without knowing my horse is vaccinated and wormed. I'd want to be vaccinated. I'm sure I'd regret not giving him shots if he got sick.

[Excess]

maybe we don't need to give those shots every year (like humans) or just horses that are going to be around places they could catch something. maybe it is a vets dream of "easy money". still, i gave shots, still cheaper them even one of them catching something. and go without worming, NO, NEVER!

I think if I had Speedy at home where he rarely came in contact with other horses or if he rarely left the property, then I probably wouldn't give shots regularly. But we do clinics, we do trail rides and we're at a boarding/rescue/training facility. Too many horses come in and out and too many horses come in that look like death and probably didn't get the care that they needed.

One facility that I was at was an almost strictly rescue facility. The guy had a big heart and brought in several horses from the killpen and sometimes horses he'd just see. Once he went to go pick up some farm equipment and in the barn he saw skeletal horses with their heads tied to the rafters so they don't lie down. He told the guy to screw the farm equipment he wanted the horses and then he saw a skeletal dog and said he wanted the dog too. The guy gave him some flack but let him take the animals. Another time he rescued a cute little arab and she came with strangles and it swept through the barn. Luckily we caught the strangles early and I got to vaccinate my horse at the time.

New York is a very horse concentrated area. In the first 3 blocks of the road that my barn is on there's 4 people with horses. One of which is right next door another is right across the street. If you keep going there's a peruvian paso place and a paint horse farm and much much more. It would just take ONE horse getting equine herpes virus or anything on our road and we could probably all get it. I am just not willing to take that chance at all.

[Weebonilass]

I have to agree with all the rest here. I watched two healthy horses die of WNV my first year back in horses after a 13 yr hiatus. It was ugly and something you will never forget. So I vaccination twice a year for it if the mosquitoes hang on.

As for worming, my gelding's sire died much younger than he had to because he was imported from an area of Germany where they didn't worm. Khamal coliced, but there was so much past damage from worms that he wasn't a viable candidate for surgery. So even though his current owner wormed regularly, the damage had already been done. The man was heartbroken from the lost of this special stallion and was in the process of selling everything, when a friend convinced him that the pain would pass and to hold off selling anything else.

It's not a risk that I want to be willing to take with my horses.

[Excess]

Here are some articles I was given to AGAINST vaccination:

http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/resources/articles/vaccinations.html

http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/resources/articles/vaccinationproblems2.html

[Weebonilass]

Well Excess, I would be more impressed if they weren't by the same person and if she had more solid evidence behind her. I find it hard to attribute a colic epsiode to a shot that might have been given a number of months ago.

My experience with tetnaus was with a pony mare we owned while I was in high school. She received a small puncture wound behind an ear that no one noticed until she became extremely sick. She was pregnant at the time and the vet warned us that we would lose the foal, but that he was pretty sure he could save the mare. Well, he ended up saving both of them and showed off his miracle baby at the county fair that year :) Her annual tetnaus was due in a month, so I'm not convinced that three years is a good thing when the wound she had was so tiny. We really had to comb her to find that small wound and, I believe, the vet was the one who actually found it.

I don't vaccinate for Potomac because it's not an issue here and my vet doesn't think it necessary, but a friend who lives in an area when it's rampant wouldn't even think about not giving it to her horses.

Just mark me as one of those that would need a lot more concrete evidence before giving up vaccinating my horses.

[Excess]

Just mark me as one of those that would need a lot more concrete evidence before giving up vaccinating my horses.

Same here. I'm going to keep vaccinating. We're a heavily horsed area and I'm not willing to take the risk. I just thought I'd post what "the other side" is saying.

[fritzi]

My first post on the new board! Anyway, the other dimension of not vaccinating, besides how dangerous it can be for your own horse if it is exposed to horses from elsewhere, is how much damage it can do to the public health of horses in general. As with measles and polio (among other human vaccinations that people are currently resisting based on internet "evidence"), a disease could crop up again or become epidemic if enough people go "natural" and don't vaccinate. I'm going to wait until there's significant really solid scientific evidence before I believe that vaccination isn't the way to go. As with anything else, there are risks and benefits associated with vaccination, and so far the benefits far far outweigh the risks for me--and for the community I feel a part of.

[Excess]

Well I had my horse get all his shots today. I also heard this story today about one of the "holistic" barns in this area. I was talking to my vet today because my farrier was talking how about shots kill and that vaccinating is the worst thing one could do to a horse and how they get sore afterwards and ect (I get vacinted regulaly. And yeah it is sore but at least im protected!). She told me the story of one of the barns in this area. Most of the boarders and the barn are very into holistic care and most don't do shots. Last year one of the horses got rabies. It was an epidemic. Horses had to be put down, some were quarantined. She said it was one of the most horrible things she's ever had to do. For that reason alone I don't regret vaccinating.

[WashoeKat]

As with anything else, there are risks and benefits associated with vaccination, and so far the benefits far far outweigh the risks for me--and for the community I feel a part of.

Frizti,

My position exactly.

IMO Annecdotal information on the internet is worse than relying on a Magic 8 Ball. At least it is random, where the internet is highly skewed toward the "one in a million" occurance. Nothing is without risk, so the vaccine will cause the occasional illness. But some times things just hapen -- if your horse gets sick, or aborts, or worse after having a vaccination it may have nothing at all to do with the vaccine. In a sample size of one there is no way to tell. (Our brains are wired for "better safe than sorry" so we assume cause and effect when there is none.) But if something happens, no matter what the actual cause may be, it will get posted to the internet as vaccine related and re-posted and re-posted. The 999,9999 horse who got the vaccine and had no reaction, no one writes about. Nor does anyone write about how their horse was saved by a vaccine, because nothing happening is just not interesting to write about.

And -- Viruses and bacteria don't respect fence lines. As with most things in this world, the decisions we make effect others.

Finally, we do receive "booster" vaccinations. I have multiple "small pox" scars on my arm and remember getting the polio vaccine every few years until college. The reason they stopped was the threat from the disease was elminated. For tetanus I still get a regular booster. The frequency of vaccination is determined by how long the immune system continues to produce enough antibodies to provide resistance.

[WashoeKat]

As with anything else, there are risks and benefits associated with vaccination, and so far the benefits far far outweigh the risks for me--and for the community I feel a part of.

Frizti,

My position exactly.

IMO Annecdotal information on the internet is worse than relying on a Magic 8 Ball. At least it is random, where the internet is highly skewed toward the "one in a million" occurance. Nothing is without risk, so the vaccine will cause the occasional illness. But some times things just hapen -- if your horse gets sick, or aborts, or worse after having a vaccination it may have nothing at all to do with the vaccine. In a sample size of one there is no way to tell. (Our brains are wired for "better safe than sorry" so we assume cause and effect when there is none.) But if something happens, no matter what the actual cause may be, it will get posted to the internet as vaccine related and re-posted and re-posted. The 999,9999 horse who got the vaccine and had no reaction, no one writes about. Nor does anyone write about how their horse was saved by a vaccine, because nothing happening is just not interesting to write about.

And -- Viruses and bacteria don't respect fence lines. As with most things in this world, the decisions we make effect others.

Finally, we do receive "booster" vaccinations. I have multiple "small pox" scars on my arm and remember getting the polio vaccine every few years until college. The reason they stopped was the threat from the disease was elminated. For tetanus I still get a regular booster. The frequency of vaccination is determined by how long the immune system continues to produce enough antibodies to provide resistance.

[fionagirl]

I agree with what others have said and personally try to minimize vaccinations to those for which there is reasonable chance of exposure. What's been way MORE upsetting to me this spring is to see the lax practices of some show staff.

We had an EHV outbreak early this spring. At the Ray Hunt clinic, the host went to great lengths to protect all the animals from any exposure. (No outside horses were allowed; everyone had to wash with and step in antibacterial; no one was allowed to touch or contact any horses, etc.) Another clinic host canceled a clinic rather than risk spread and is requiring proof of EHV vaccination within 14 days of the upcoming clinic. In stark contrast -- I talked to a friend who does the hunter show circuit and she said no one said a peep about it despite horses coming to the show from throughout new england. They didn't even ask for her health certificate of vaccination against EHV.